I would like to understand just why humanity has so often to find reasons to keep conflicts going.
Lets talk about that, but first
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/death-threat-to-mps-julia-gillard-tony-abbott-and-kevin-rudd/story-e6freuy9-1226073953258
A disturbing event and we must ask why
OUG thanks mate.
Just heard for the first time, looking for a link, ABC,s Kerry O,Brien giving a talk on journalism.
It was one of those moments in life.
I have struggled to find words to express my thoughts on this subject for my whole life.
I want to know why we cannot get better outcomes in every thing we do, had, still do blame self interest.
But Journalists ,in the middle of the biggest change in their trade, know that word,are using it.
Astro Turf, artificial grass roots movements, made to look like public opinion , to direct public opinion by any means,in the interests of those who hold power.
Those who want to influence in the name of their self interest.
Why could I not find the word to describe it.
My whole life has been one of confronting it.
If the most welded on anti trade unionist could walk with me in to such a place,self interest before truth, I am sure they would like me, come out understanding we must one day truly,put country before Astro Turf salesmen.

This reminds me of a cartoon I saw about 40 years ago . One person says to the other " Do you support the death penalty ? " The reply is "No , and anybody who does should be hanged . "

i caught a previeuw of kerries talk..belly
he did say much good..but its only too easy to say the right thing
AFTER your gone...yet to have spun the wrong things when he had the power..

kerry was one of the best
as reflected by lateline playing so much the same
as the 730 report....[toney is a phonie...[im talking about that latline phoney tony..running interferance on q and a]

the more i see of him
the sicker i see..what he is trying to do

belly quote...""made to look like public opinion""

yes...spin..!

""to direct public opinion..by any means,
in the interests of those who hold power.""

sad to say..but i agree

""Those who want to influence
in the name of their self interest.""

yes some deserve consultation
others just MUST cop it sweet..cause the parties dont even listen to their own party SUPPORTers

""Why could I not find the word to describe it.""

its done cleverly
they are carefull not to appear to go too far
thus avoiding us hearing...in our minds..the right word clearly...[neither weak nor strong][salt that has lost is flavour..[isnt salt]

so i call it assult*

""My whole life has been one of confronting it.""
mate your still doing fine
dont lose heart..your neded more than ever..

""If the most welded on anti trade unionist
could walk with me..in to such a place,self interest before truth, I am sure they would like me,..come out understanding we must one day truly,put country before Astro Turf salesmen""

well its a matter of all people being equal
not just those with the loudest voice
or the biggest self intrests

capitalists..suckling on the pub-lic purse
privatising proffit...and publicising their loss
their greed over the peons need

One of the hardest things about debates is being able to hear what other people are ACTUALLY saying not just listening (or reading) to the words.
People say lets debate then turn off when others talk by thinking that he or she is full of crap before they even start.
We have lost the ability to reason.
If we cant understand that other people have opionions that we must hear before we accuse then we end up with anarchy.
Democracy is a system where we should be able to say and be heard, it appears to have changed a bit over the years to, you say anything against what I say and I hurt you either morally or physically.
This is why our politicans carry on as they do and its no different in any country, worse in some.
What does it take to change a persons point of view, I was on another discussion the other day, it was about the RSPCA stopping exports, I was against this originally, but was reminded that "our old eat dog food" now I'm for stopping exports,because we do not look after our most prized possession, the people that made our country great, most of the discussion was for the animal rights (which I support) but what people were arguing were points that are not unsurmountable but those 5 words hit a spot.
If you are not open to discussion its not a debate?

MickC truly mate did not quite get what you think about that other thread.
It will always be true,that true country folk think much differently than City ones.
I have been lucky see my part of the bush never had jobs, we the children, for sure the eldest, left to live in City's and work.
Girls rarely came back, boys some times did, I did, then went back to City's too.
Out there,in the north of WA /SA QLD or the Territory , some rich firms exist ,some very small producers, and most work comes for indigenous people on these stations.
That debate had to end up badly, no other way existed.
Did you see the story aimed at yabby the emotional life story told from the Lambs point of view?
We have had the debate, far too often, men are branded inhuman for reminding women animals die, we eat meat.
Find me one single contributor, just ONE would first second and last did not want an end to cruelty.
In time of crisis war danger, men are first in front, women do not always find that front line, but our best do, and they can lead and Be very brave.
No intent to insult but what woman would let me get involved in telling them about something they know more than me about.
Emotions are standing in the way of fixing this problem.
In any debate, any subject resolution comes if both sides look at the others case, here the Lady's have point blank said no we are right.
What is best, an end to the cruelty forever even after it only home grown cattle being killed there?
Or do we let a blindness that refuses to see it keeps the dreadful practices in place forever.
Outcomes, no resolution without thought.

Belly, I should stick to what I do best and that's listening to what people have to say.
I just cant seem to get a point across.
I read lots here and there and find all interesting.
I find that lots of people talk from emotion only, Im no exception
But that unfortunately is part of human nature, still Im willing to listen and if I hear something that has meaning then I take it on digest it, if it changes my mind Im happy to say so.
But it seems that not many can do this.
When was the last time you heard something that made you react and change your mind. I see you have lots of information at hand as do lots of others.
If people do not concede that the other has made a point and cannot acknowledge that then where is the debate. Its an arguement.