May I ask that posters read this Morning the hard copy or on line edition of the Sydney Morning Herald.
Richard Glovers piece, maybe his first attempt to laugh at/with us all, for our ability to get lost on any issue.
Death threats hate so very much less than what we, in the west,expect from our selves.
We talk of bringing a Democratic way to the world while we seem to have lost our own way.
A better world demands constant reviews of our direction not surely blind support for heading in wrong directions.

Belly

Did you mean this article?

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/a-climate-change-wave-of-hate-20110609-1ftix.html

Richard Glover writes many articles, not everyone lives in NSW and can grab an actual copy of the SMH. Therefore, I would've considered it "civil" of you to supply a link.

Glover writes:

"Here's how it started. Last week, in this spot, I wrote a piece about climate change. It was critical of both the left and the right and contained some comic hyperbole about both: that environmental zealots wanted us all to live in caves and that climate-change deniers should tattoo their beliefs on their bodies so they couldn't later deny their role in preventing action on climate change.

So far, so hum-hum. On Saturday and Sunday, the piece never made it to the Herald's list of ''most read'' opinion pieces. I had nine emails - four of them saying they agreed, five against, but all expressed pleasantly. No one thought the piece was offensive or even that remarkable. The comic hyperbole was seen as, well, comic hyperbole.

Then - sometime Sunday night - a link to the piece was put on a right-wing website in the US, offering me up as another communist trying to ruin the world through the ''hoax'' of climate change. The piece started multiplying in cyberspace, mainly on websites dedicated to exposing the leftist conspiracy about climate change.

Suddenly I was the toast of town: about 300,000 people read the piece on smh.com.au between Sunday night and Tuesday morning. I had more readers than anyone else in the Herald. Only problem was: many of them wanted to kill me."

Now, Belly say "thank you" for doing your work for you.

Yes indeed thank you, very much, now let me be honest I have learning difficulty's.
Can not explain it, most know my education is self made.
I can remember phone numbers I last used 20 years ago.
But can not yet cut and paste, and have no idea how to find the web address of a site.
Maybe Forrest or some one can start a thread answers for dumb old fellas.
My 486, first PC came in a box , my then boss showed me enought to use words and send e mails.
Come a long way but not a seconds formal training, I how ever was one of three, from ten, union officials who could use a PC.
In any case how sick was that, the hate, stupidity , dumbness of those hate filled e mails.
A question, are we worried that America our long term Friend and all is infested with so much mental illness?
And second are we headed that way.

Thank you both for that. Interesting piece.

I'm not so sure that it represents a decline of civil debate, rather the inclusion of an audience that never was into civil debate.

Around OLO some are civil almost all the time, others are continuously involved in less than civil discussions on far to regular a basis for it to be coincidence.

The extremes of any ideology rarely do well with conflicting opinions (or even opinions with some common ground but less than wholehearted support).

R0bert

RObert <"I'm not so sure that it represents a decline of civil debate, rather the inclusion of an audience that never was into civil debate."

RObert hit the nail on the head with this comment. The climate change debate is something I rarely get into for this very reason, and I am sure Glover has some regret now too!

You either have the rampant greenies planning your death if you dare to deny climate change, or the religious zealots praying for your untimely death if you dare support climate change.

I have decided to sit on the fence on this one.

Belly, I don't believe there is a decline in civil debate, nor are the bulk of Americans "...infested with so much mental illness".
It is merely two sides of a debate that will never agree on anything!

Belly

Now I feel awful. Was a little impatient with you due to some of your personal comments to me on the RSPCA thread. I respect you efforts learn, always have even when I fully disagree. Even when you are rude to me.-

On topic. Yeah Glover got a dose of the far, far right in USA. Makes our Liberal Party look like fluffy bunnies. Just for perverse entertainment I posted on a right wing site just to see how long my posts would stay on. I wasn't saying anything particularly rude, just that I was against the death penalty because innocent people had been killed. But that was enough for a torrent of abuse and a record of my IP address, so I couldn't log on again under other names.

However, these people are not mainstream, they are fringe; dark and nasty yes, but not indicative of a decline in civil debate. Well, unless you consider Col Rouge the shallow end of the civil pool.

As for climate change. Looks like we will find out one way or another in the next 20 - 30 years. Shame, we are not transitioning to clean sustainable technology simply because it makes good sense, irrespective of your belief in science.

I guess it is just coincidence that more tropical fish are being found in Sydney harbour, low lying Pacific Islands are being swallowed by the sea, we can now travel through the North West passage in the Arctic in summer, well there's more but no-one wants to hear.

La La La La La

Belly

Even more worrying than the threats received by Glover, were those received by Australian Climate scientists recently:

" SYDNEY — Climate researchers at one of Australia's top universities have been rushed to a secure location after receiving death threats, according to an official, as debate rages about plans for a carbon pollution tax.

The Australian National University (ANU) scientists had to be shifted following mounting abuse, with threats they would be attacked in the street if they didn't stop their research, said ANU vice-chancellor Dick Young."

http://tinyurl.com/3qcnc9p

We don't need American nutters when there are plenty right here in good old Oz.

Would the people who threatened the scientists describes themselves as climate change skeptics or deniers? One thing I am sure of is that they are threatened by change from fossil to renewable energy and have the might of the entire fossil fuel industry to support them. All of which makes the claims that scientists are lying just to get grants look insubstantial by comparison.

And human beings are more evolved than monkeys...lol....not from where I stand:) Or maybe like Jane Goodall was right......"we can only see our true selves when we study our closest relatives" and by whats going on around the world at the moment, any type of "Delcine pf Civil Debate" can be summed up with one word..........Neanderthals:)

The world is tearing itself apart, because the primitive minds can not agree on what came first.....The chicken or the egg. Religion is still the one thing humans haven't got over, and wont for a long time to come.

A banana anyone:)

LEA

Thanks Ammonite I can be rude, it is my passion that lets me down
RObert did we once share another forum? Some one spelled the name that way maybe it was you.
Look folks Guilty, I get a bit rough in debate.
But my path is not easy, I reject the fools in my team and demand better and those in conservatism and know far better exists.
Howard, not my cup of tea was a statesman, with out work choices, his fixation on killing all unions he would still be prime minster.
Suzi, yes agree,but if you and I step away from our belief in man made climate change[I never can] it will change nothing.
If we except one side is awfully wrong, why can we not talk about it without the rubbish.
I never intended the thread focus on OLO or Australia.
I strongly hold the view the west is divided on things that will one day fragment us weaken us and just maybe destroy us.
I am content if we see it is a right to hold opinions, even if we think we know it is wrong, others that is.
Ammonite I was born dyslectic, can learn anything, but never understand why.
I have to have the right information then tell myself to study and once I do its there forever.
I will learn, within a month to cut and paste.
Back to politics,any one think question time is civil.
Any one believe, and I do, only Tony Abbott is keeping the ALP within reach of conservatives in the polls?

Belly,
I believe there has been a decline in civil debate, and i put it down to the use of computers and the ability to make comments anonomosly.

Some here may know that I followed Jessica Watson's round the world voyage and i have kept up with news of her activities since, as i am interested to see where life takes this remarkable young lady. However after each press article about her, I cannot help but notice some very nasty comments made by some readers. I think her achievement was outstanding and since returning she has done us proud at many local and overseas events such as boat shows, her book signings and media interviews, etc. so in my opinion any critisism is totally undeserved. If one does not agree with that, there is no need what so ever to make nasty personal comments that many do.

I do not know if it is jealousy, spite or what, but there are far more nasty comments in the Courier Mail than in the Sydney or Melbourne papers. This is opposite to what I would have thought.

On occasion, I have defended Jessica when the comments are incorrect and this generally brings further abusive comments. Far worse than we ever get on OLO.

I also notice other blogs do not have the same standards as OLO and the posters can be quite nasty. Yes standard of debate has dropped.

Excuse me, Belly - but did you say that John Howard was a statesman?

Not in my book, mate.

Nelson Mandela is a statesman. Franklin D. Roosevelt was a statesman. Churchill was a statesman.....Howard, on the other hand, was a obsequious, fawning disciple of the neo-con administration in Washington - he wasn't a statesman's bootlace.

Ammonite,
This is what Tim Blair of the Daily Telegraph had to say about the so called 'death threats' to ANU climate scientists.

Quote
Claims prominent climate change scientists had recently received death threats have been revealed as an opportunistic ploy, with the Australian National University admitting that they occurred up to five years ago.

Only two of ANU’s climate change scientists allegedly received death threats, the first in a letter posted in 2006-2007 and the other an offhand remark made in person 12 months ago.

Neither was officially reported to ACT Police or Australian Federal Police, despite such crimes carrying a 10-year prison sentence.

As for the gigantic new security now in place at the university:

The Daily Telegraph has discovered the nine scientists and staff in question were merely given keyless swipe cards – routine security measures taken last year.

Some old, already-exposed emails. A five-year-old letter. And an argument at a faculty wine-and-cheese night. That’s the extent of the threats facing Australian climate scientists. Must these people exaggerate everything

Dear Belly,

Decline of civil debate? The internet is quite a mix - isn't it. You get all sorts. Quaint retro-types whose ignorance cover them like a blanket with scarcely a hole in it anywhere. Then there's the racist,
homophobic, xenophobic, sexists, and of course there's the heavy-handed creeps and trolls. But thankfully none of them frequent OLO.
(joke).

Seriously though, Americans are an even stranger bunch - perhaps because things are so much faster there than here. People in the US don't "stand for election," they "run for office."

Anyway, regarding climate change - well, we may not be able to change the world, but at least we can embarrass the guilty. Got to try.

"but at least we can embarrass the guilty. Got to try." yes talking in the third person helps, and very smooth lexi.The Decline of civil debate? But how do we define whats civil when everyone's a raving smart arse:) Oh I get it, only the righteous one's may have an opinion, well if you've practiced the game of deliverable/predictable mind tennis, I guess your the best:) See, people need to talk about what they know, even if they dont. However bad manners is a lesson all might brush up on.

If new questions and answers have been given, some might feel a little left out.....well that happens for time to time, dont it.

Banjo....So if someone wants to be anonymous, are you saying if you found out their true ID you would do what? Go ape perhaps and use the monkey tantrum as an excuse for peoples objections to commit violence against someone you dont even know. I just blog here, and if you people dont like what you read, just ignore it. Its not like someones holding a gun against your head.......thou for some, thats just the human zoo:) But I will end this in saying........" humans can be convinced of absolutely any-thing" and if your not angry now, well your just not human:)

LEA

Let us not go there, the name ourselves thing.
Look good solid reasons exist not to.
I did here.
And it bought needless problems.
I fell for taunts that I was a coward, not so,of any of us.
Blair is rubbish, as worthy of my attention as Alan Jones and a host more.
The INTERNET is changing the world,for the better see the Arab spring, power to its people!
It however is not changing bigots fools or those who are overly impressed with them selves, just giving them a platform.
We, know better but continue to give them air by responding to them.
Are we letting our selves become the victims of confrontation.
Parliament sits soon, leave your biases at the fridge,sit down and watch.
Abbott just for one sitting.
Compare him with Rudd Hawk, Howard Turnbull.
CLIMATE CHANGE now forget your opinion, I ask this if true or not,is it not true one way or the other it has the potential to be the biggest issue in our recent history.
Out world wide debate on this issue is nothing less than disgracefully, both sides.
I a believer am branded just for saying that,the threads subject highlights our devision .

at least we can embarrass the guilty. Got to try.
Lexi,
Glad to see you're seeing things from a better perspective now & good on you for doing your bit. You're doing well.

Banjo

My ex used to stalk and threaten me, he has not done so for many years because he does not know where I am.

I am still frightened.

People making death threats anytime, anywhere particularly over an issue like climate change, trying to force scientists to what? Change their findings? Lie about their observations? From what I understand the threats began years ago and have continued to escalate. About as rational a response as Abbott's "climate change is crap".

The evidence is in. Deal with it - but resorting to abuse at any level from name-calling to physical threat indicates that some people are not to be taken seriously.

Just as I would trust a neurosurgeon over a GP to operate on my brain, so I would trust the research of a climatologist over an economist, journalist or anyone (including scientists) in the pay of the fossil fuel industry where the bulk of disagreement has been heard.

Maybe Belly is right - there is a decline in civil debate. Watching parliament is just embarrassing - no matter what your political affiliations.

What is desperately is a change of attitude towards those with whom you disagree. Tolerance, acceptance and compassion have become as rare as planning for the long term.

i must ask belly
how do you post?

you "left click"
on your mouse

now put that pointer arrow
on the..top-of..the page..[this page]

now see the white/window..next-to the arrows?
put your arrow-pointer/..on that

now click
the right-hand button[on your mouse]
a little window opens...[with options on it]

PUT the arrow on one...[copy/or/cut]

now LEFT/click...and the ADDRESS disappears
its now ready to paste

simply go to a page
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/compose-message-general.asp?discussion=4508

use left button/click once
to put the blinking..I..line on the page

then click
[the right hand ...mouse-button
to paste it..onto the post page]

to copy or paste etc
is on that..*other button
[the right hand buton..on your mouse]

as for the decline of civil-debate
look at the lies...

how can you..not know..
your being conned..with all this spin

5 year old complaints
yesterdays reports
modeling..lol

now aquarium fish..in sydney harbour...lol

even hobart has problems..with ships dumping balast
[introducing pest species..globally]

that means mankind..doing business by ships
are sloppy..with the rules about dumping their ballast out at sea

not that the extra fish
will raise..*MAYBE...the water level
in maybe 100 years
by maybe a half a meter

we are going to go broke on maybe?
on flawed modeling...

cause its cheaper ..
[IF THERE REALLY IS..A PROBLEM]
to do it now...lol..wow
but

is EVEN the thing
[were doing NOW]
the right thing..to get power
into your home[at night]..*tomorrow?

this is a complicated issue
we got a treasurors/report[lol]..with no specific details]

..that says usa is doing *something
[with 6 states..totaling 6 billion tops]..in usa

or that 3 states
in china..are doing..'something'

we got europe..*doing things..[big business]
AND..their sceme*..*got rorted*

and now its built
there ISNT
NO MORE.."GREEN JOBS"

and many of their govts..went broke

but they got nukulear
they got a network..
with other countries..for backup/power

[like when the cold weather
broke all them UK windmills..

and they HAD TO*..BUY their power from france}

its a con juliar..!
the minester..*for climate change..LIES..!

Maybe Belly is right - there is a decline in civil debate.
Ammonite,
There is a decline in just about everything to do with human mentality. A large amount of this is due to incompetent authorities making life far too difficult for people. Also, there are an awful lot of spaced-out ignorant academics pushing their way into decision making circles & stuffing up many peoples' lives. What the experts need to not forget that ordinary blue collar society is way smarter than the experts but because of the political system are powerless to act without becoming criminal.
It all boils down to the one fact that there are far too many hangers-on in modern society & the old fashioned provider is simply getting tired of exploitation.
Civil debate has no place when discussing with rotten egg characters.

I wouldn't have thought Tim Blair would be cited as a paragon of civil debate. Though he's not quite as bad as his stablemate Andrew Bolt, one only has to look at the standard of commentary at his blog to see some of the most egregiously 'uncivil' discourse from his fans. Bolt's blog is even worse.

While I think that debate on the Internet would be much more civil if people didn't operate under the illusion of anonymity, it's a bit of a furphy. People who break the law online are generally quite easily traced and are regularly brought to account.

Actually, I think that the decline in civil debate is more symptomatic of a decline in socialisation of young people in their upbringing these days. To encounter good manners in everyday life is becoming the exception rather than the norm, and perhaps the Internet is just reflecting that.

Leap,
I wouldn't bother even to find out who a poster is. Being anonomous simply makes it easier for some to vent their spleen.

Ammonite,
The revelation that the ANU 'death threats' was a ploy to gain public sympathy is further evidence that climate scientific credibility is questionable. It is no wonder that people have become sceptical about the climate claims. Tim Flannery has yet to get anything right.

Frankly it is far more concerning that we have convicted some 20 persons for plotting terrorist acts. These were home grown and it is not likely that we have caught all that think that way.

Our political leaders do not set a good example of integrity in debate. Question time is worse than a kids argument. Former PM Rudd claimed the climate change was the greatest moral challenge of our time, but then abandoned his ETS because it became electorally unpopular. He had also used a couple of hot days in Adelaide as 'proof' of global warming. Does 'never,never a GST' or 'there will be no carbon tax under the government I lead' ring a bell.

Look at the involvement of Abbott and Beattie in the railroading and jailing of Pauline Hanson, simply because she was a political threat. No compensation to her for her unwarranted jailing either.

Because I have views against Multiculturalism I have been subjected to much name calling, which doesn't affect me as i know those that attack the person have no other arguement to put forward

morganzola,
I would not say either Blair or Bolt were paragons of virtue in debate either, but if what they say goes unchallenged by the Fairfax press you can say it has some truth in it.

In relation to the ANU 'death threats', there has been no such challenge to Blairs view. Looks very much like the 'death threats' were a publicity ploy. Where is the integrity?

Threats to officials and politicians are not unusual. It is surprising how common it is, so I don't doubt there have been death threats around climate change given the emotions this topic stirs. "Bob's bitch" type slogans from the Tea Party camp is one example. But the other side of the climate change debate can be equally as dismissive.

I reckon Glover was on the money.

First we had those who supported the concept of AGW calling sceptics - "deniers", "red necks" and worse, then the opposing side mobilised their media machine and now we have death threats to believers and a swing in the empahsis of the campaign. Such is the nature of propaganda. The truth gets lost in the melee.

Civil debate has declined but I reckon the normal dinner time conversations of the past when people were thumping their fists on the table on some political point has just been transferred to the internet and media thanks to modern technology.

Morganzola is right about the decline of manners and how this is reflected in any medium. The more society becomes accustomed to uncivil behaviour the more 'normal' it becomes.

Sadly I see our country slipping down the same path as Americans are where so many people are brainless and insecure enough that the zealously fight on behalf of some political group- with such severity that they feel the need to threaten to kill people for merely challenging their hero's Spoken Truths (And challenging their narrow understanding of the world).

I blame it on the culture where factions actually project stakes of their party being the only thing upholding the very livelyhoods, security and safety of their supporters, and were they ever to be voted out the nation would collapse and enter a new age of communism or nazism or some rubbish- but people believe it.

I'm not one to compliment the Liberals or Labor, but we see this with every election; If Labor gets in we will spiral into a massive recession and then they will socialize all businesses because they're really communists- and if Liberals get in we will have police states and cut-throat dog-eat-dog business etc.
You name it- whichever side is not in, their plan is to secretly do things to make your life miserable;

Yet, we've seen plenty of both to note that things don't really change THAT much. They both put in the same effort when the global recession DID happen (though Australia's material independence is mostly to thank)- Labor didn't open the floodgates to refugees when they got in, and the Liberals probably aren't going to try Workchoices so eagerly if they get back in- because deep down they actually want to get voted back in by the public and aren't going to try any tricks they don't think they will get away with.

Dear QL,

I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel. And I've also learned that whenever I decide something with an open heart, I usually make the right decision.

Dear Individual,

Thank You. A kind word or deed doesn't cost much - yet it often makes a big difference to someone.

Dear Belly,

I think part of the problem in today's society is that malignant thought form that "other people are the problem." Conservatives tend to blame Labor for our problems, while Labor blames conservatives. The media blames almost everyone, and almost everyone blames asylum seekers. Some people are convinced that homosexuals are the problem, while others think that single parents are the problem. Still others think that the Christian Right is the problem, and far too many people think that bad parents are the problem. The entire culture seems to have become a hysterical blame session.

Yet a healthy vital society is not one in which we all agree. It's one in which those who disagree can do so with honour and respect for other people's opinions and an appreciation of our shared humanity.
Without personal commitment to the attributes of fair play and integrity, our society is in grave danger. Malice and intolerance stalk our society striking claim to our minds, and not one corner of our social order is unaffected. It doesn't matter so much how we've degenerated into this mess - what matters is that we commit to making a change to this infantile finger-pointing beginning with ourselves.

It's more important that we renew dignified and respectful dialogue with those who do not agree with us than we keep congratulating those who have the wisdom to see things our way.

Thanks OUG just can not lift the mental block today, but will return to your instructions and LEARN soon.
Social isolation, wanted not forced, has a hand in this problem.
So many have for gotten how to communicate without insulting others.
And that they too, may just be wrong,I share the stated opinions on Bolt, would not assist him in a bush fire.
See I am guilty of less than civil debate.
In the midst of our increasing failures to talk things out we do not get the best answers.
NO ONE can say with certainty any question is totally right.

I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel. Yeah! well isn't that a two way street! If you insult me, an eye for an eye comes into play, and dont put any guilt trip on me, the world is a ugly place, and I wonder who made the people feel this way?..hey! Dont be a smart arse lexi, cause there's a fine line between smart and just being an arse. For legal reasons, would you care to explain your post to everyone please.

"I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel."

Humans Lexi, what you still haven't figured them out yet....Oh you poor simple thing:)

LEA

Dear QL,

I won't play nasty with you.

You must try to grow beyond wanting a shallow fight
on this public forum - or you will subsequently be ignored.
No one likes, or supports an abusive, illogical or weak
debater

Dear Lexi.

A weak and illogical? lol You are a funny person, however I will endeavor to satisfied your level of debate, on the grounds its the right thing to do.

In the house of parliamentary "so-call adult" discussion, there seems to be quite the opposite. IMO our leaders show people how the debate can quickly go out-of-control and resembles nothing more than a school yard fight, but of course as both sides of the banana parties beats their chest at each our, other counties have the grace of a flightless bird.

I think generally people are extremely stressed at the currant climate, and who could blame them. I'll be surprised if the good old days return as many think it will.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXw90MJsFoA

Thank goodness its not like this here.

LEA

Ammonite “Well, unless you consider Col Rouge the shallow end of the civil pool.”

Wherever I am in what you declare as the “civil pool” at least I tend to direct my comments, civilized or otherwise, to a person in response to their comments

I would note, in this matter you seemed to have picked my name out of thin air, for what purpose I have no idea

Ammonite, maybe you could elaborate for us all –

how your own random selection of me for what is a weak yet veiled criticism advances “civil debate” and does not achieve the opposite

Actually, one observation to “civilized debate” I would make is an obvious decline in spelling standards –
I am referring not to some comment written in the “thrust and parry” heat of debating a point but in the title of this thread, which I presumes was constructed with due consideration to its anticipated presentation.

Ammonite “Maybe Belly is right - there is a decline in civil debate. Watching parliament is just embarrassing - no matter what your political affiliations.”

Maybe you should read some of the cartoons published in London by Hogarth and Gilray and their colleagues and the lampooning and sarcastic denigration of all and every politicians…..

those guys were doing their stuff 200 years ago….
So there is nothing new in todays approach to politics….. actually Ammonite, since you chose to make random observation of my style of writing I feel free to make an observation of you

Try thinking and maybe researching before putting crayon to paper… it helps avoid giving us the impression of your absolute naivety

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=4508&page=0
Thank you One Under God, its time to remind every one not of my learning difficulty's but that the world is full of people who know even less.
It was clear in my youth my job was to work, hard like my dad and help feed a hungry family.
I never liked school thought only of a pay check.
Weird but once the wages started to come in age just short of 13 I fell in love.
With education.
I have read enough books to keep Lexi busy for a week.
Every day read and learn, the hunger never went away.
But like, maybe it is some thing else, Dyslexia I just am blocked by some huddles, this was one, OUG you have full ,membership of my club.
I always say these two things if talking to a crowd of workers, if I have just helped them, now remember if we all help some one we have done a good deed a better feeling than a bad one.
And OUG sure you will not mind me saying my other mantra is*tell me what you really think, not what you think I want to hear* my regards Mate.

Dear QL,

I think the political landscape at present is probably an accurate representation of the voters at this point in time. We've got both a government and an Opposition with which the public is not happy. That's probably why Independents and Greens have the balance of power. Neither of the major parties have shown the voters that they're worthy of governing. We've got a current PM who's still rembered for the coup she was involved in, and an Opposition leader whose future vision of Australia will leave us behind by the rest of the world. We can only hope for a change of leadership before the next election.

QL you and I cross verbal swords often.
In the spirit of helping you, nothing else, you are targeting a very good balanced poster.
In my view one of our best, first its a rather threatening way to talk to a lady.
And as you know, your words have found you trouble before, it may well be, it could, that you are unaware your posting style often drifts.
Mine too some times, but lets be men about this, men try some times to project their man hood in body language or written words, never know why.
I continue to find other ways in time of need, sticks and stones you under stand.
I find Col not my best mate, but compared to your worst?
You can do better mate, ever post here in another name?

good to see you got the cut paste thing
[too easy once you know]

the only other thing to learn now is to copy
this is done by holding down the left clicvk button
then sliding the mouse to the end of what you wish to copy

again
its as simple as pointing at the first word
and dragging it to the lasst..while holding the left click button down

if it goes blue
then being carfull not to move your mouse
right click to open the window...then left clicking on 'copy'

i learnt these things cause im lazy
writing for me is a one finger peck..while sounding out the word

so cutting[or rather copying]...]
saves me rewriting what im trying to comment about

life is full of little tricks..PEOPLE SHOULD REALLY KNOW
should be taught in school..[basic things like manners leaper]

lexie is one of the better posters we have here
as far as getting along with most people..and often
finding out the right reply..at the right time

leapers comments often seem at some tangent
and with over use of youtube clips...

[but occasionally does get an affectual comment
into the topic..but not this time ol son]

we realise that there is a decline
but dont need actual egsamples

anyhow bellie is the hardest to read
but posts so much he often says more good stuff than most
he has a good heart and is generous of spirit...

but he is a party man through and through...
forcing him to often try to say stuff..
im not sure he is intending to say..

but then others say im the hardest to read of them all
but i think leaper is more difficult to conmprehend
and belly harder to read...yet still enjoy trying to read u both

i suppose i admire people who have passion
or rather not afraid of voicing their opinion

anyhow my solar cells getting low
i cant hardly see the keys

so goodluck and good night
be the beast you you can be
if you cant be verbose at least aim...at being precice

be unafraid to take
the wrong side occasionally...
or even 'say' the wrong thing

dare to walk every/any where
comment...on any site

be the best you
that you can be*

first just be
then believe

Rest a-sure Belly, that's the last thing on my mind. But like in parliament situations, sometimes things become a little heated at times, however its remotely small that anyone would hate here.

Anyway, here's an other funny video on dignitaries at work:)
The reason I mentioned Jane Goodall was the fact that chimpanzees throw the same tantrums as we do, so us being APE is along the lines of how we evolved, however that's another story.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ah_QZtz4bMc&feature=fvwrel

leapers comments often seem at some tangent
and with over use of youtube clips...

And you can talk..lol your so incoherent at times, I cant see anything else but links:)

We all vent our spleens here, so don't put me in the naughty corner:)

If I have an opinion, at least its a honest one.

And I love you to OUG:)

Good night all.

LEA

I would like to understand just why humanity has so often to find reasons to keep conflicts going.
Lets talk about that, but first
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/death-threat-to-mps-julia-gillard-tony-abbott-and-kevin-rudd/story-e6freuy9-1226073953258
A disturbing event and we must ask why
OUG thanks mate.
Just heard for the first time, looking for a link, ABC,s Kerry O,Brien giving a talk on journalism.
It was one of those moments in life.
I have struggled to find words to express my thoughts on this subject for my whole life.
I want to know why we cannot get better outcomes in every thing we do, had, still do blame self interest.
But Journalists ,in the middle of the biggest change in their trade, know that word,are using it.
Astro Turf, artificial grass roots movements, made to look like public opinion , to direct public opinion by any means,in the interests of those who hold power.
Those who want to influence in the name of their self interest.
Why could I not find the word to describe it.
My whole life has been one of confronting it.
If the most welded on anti trade unionist could walk with me in to such a place,self interest before truth, I am sure they would like me, come out understanding we must one day truly,put country before Astro Turf salesmen.

This reminds me of a cartoon I saw about 40 years ago . One person says to the other " Do you support the death penalty ? " The reply is "No , and anybody who does should be hanged . "

i caught a previeuw of kerries talk..belly
he did say much good..but its only too easy to say the right thing
AFTER your gone...yet to have spun the wrong things when he had the power..

kerry was one of the best
as reflected by lateline playing so much the same
as the 730 report....[toney is a phonie...[im talking about that latline phoney tony..running interferance on q and a]

the more i see of him
the sicker i see..what he is trying to do

belly quote...""made to look like public opinion""

yes...spin..!

""to direct public opinion..by any means,
in the interests of those who hold power.""

sad to say..but i agree

""Those who want to influence
in the name of their self interest.""

yes some deserve consultation
others just MUST cop it sweet..cause the parties dont even listen to their own party SUPPORTers

""Why could I not find the word to describe it.""

its done cleverly
they are carefull not to appear to go too far
thus avoiding us hearing...in our minds..the right word clearly...[neither weak nor strong][salt that has lost is flavour..[isnt salt]

so i call it assult*

""My whole life has been one of confronting it.""
mate your still doing fine
dont lose heart..your neded more than ever..

""If the most welded on anti trade unionist
could walk with me..in to such a place,self interest before truth, I am sure they would like me,..come out understanding we must one day truly,put country before Astro Turf salesmen""

well its a matter of all people being equal
not just those with the loudest voice
or the biggest self intrests

capitalists..suckling on the pub-lic purse
privatising proffit...and publicising their loss
their greed over the peons need

One of the hardest things about debates is being able to hear what other people are ACTUALLY saying not just listening (or reading) to the words.
People say lets debate then turn off when others talk by thinking that he or she is full of crap before they even start.
We have lost the ability to reason.
If we cant understand that other people have opionions that we must hear before we accuse then we end up with anarchy.
Democracy is a system where we should be able to say and be heard, it appears to have changed a bit over the years to, you say anything against what I say and I hurt you either morally or physically.
This is why our politicans carry on as they do and its no different in any country, worse in some.
What does it take to change a persons point of view, I was on another discussion the other day, it was about the RSPCA stopping exports, I was against this originally, but was reminded that "our old eat dog food" now I'm for stopping exports,because we do not look after our most prized possession, the people that made our country great, most of the discussion was for the animal rights (which I support) but what people were arguing were points that are not unsurmountable but those 5 words hit a spot.
If you are not open to discussion its not a debate?

MickC truly mate did not quite get what you think about that other thread.
It will always be true,that true country folk think much differently than City ones.
I have been lucky see my part of the bush never had jobs, we the children, for sure the eldest, left to live in City's and work.
Girls rarely came back, boys some times did, I did, then went back to City's too.
Out there,in the north of WA /SA QLD or the Territory , some rich firms exist ,some very small producers, and most work comes for indigenous people on these stations.
That debate had to end up badly, no other way existed.
Did you see the story aimed at yabby the emotional life story told from the Lambs point of view?
We have had the debate, far too often, men are branded inhuman for reminding women animals die, we eat meat.
Find me one single contributor, just ONE would first second and last did not want an end to cruelty.
In time of crisis war danger, men are first in front, women do not always find that front line, but our best do, and they can lead and Be very brave.
No intent to insult but what woman would let me get involved in telling them about something they know more than me about.
Emotions are standing in the way of fixing this problem.
In any debate, any subject resolution comes if both sides look at the others case, here the Lady's have point blank said no we are right.
What is best, an end to the cruelty forever even after it only home grown cattle being killed there?
Or do we let a blindness that refuses to see it keeps the dreadful practices in place forever.
Outcomes, no resolution without thought.

Belly, I should stick to what I do best and that's listening to what people have to say.
I just cant seem to get a point across.
I read lots here and there and find all interesting.
I find that lots of people talk from emotion only, Im no exception
But that unfortunately is part of human nature, still Im willing to listen and if I hear something that has meaning then I take it on digest it, if it changes my mind Im happy to say so.
But it seems that not many can do this.
When was the last time you heard something that made you react and change your mind. I see you have lots of information at hand as do lots of others.
If people do not concede that the other has made a point and cannot acknowledge that then where is the debate. Its an arguement.

MickC YOU DO always HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO YOUR OPINION AND to change your mind.
But give me that right too, if you consider my every day use in my past job, and strongly held view.
That people should only *Tell me what you really think, not what you think I want to hear*
You will understand I very much listen/read/consider all views.
Mate at that final stage, after the whole issue is rolled around chewed and regurgitated a choice is made.
If we ever intend to progress that point MUST COME I stand by my thoughts, in fact challenge thoughts based only on emotions.
I do not intend to insult those women, believe me , but how,tell me, can emotions be the measure.
A debate can only be civil Mick, if both sides look for answers and except no human being who ever lived or ever will is always right.
That thread is a dry dam, fishing in it will be unproductive, I no longer will.
In matters of world trade and food production we Australians and the world can not live in isolation.
FIRST SECOND and last the Cruelty must end.
IF Mick our trade does then looking for better outcomes will too, a century from now cattle may still die this horrible way.
Because we acted on emotion not common sense.
Stay around Mick we will agree some times but lets not forget we can learn from one another.

MickC and others not unlike most posters I wandered from the intended directions of a thread I started.
It had been my intention to look at the world wide debate on climate change,the less than civil debate there, and in Australian politics.
We took a turn, partly as a result of my words with our new poster, and things being said in a thread I only visit to read a question has arisen.
Remember how I told of being taunted, to name myself here?
And that I did so, suffering repercussions because I did?
I have always posted as me, Bell is my surname,any can find my name here.;
I understand sometimes , it is best to get a new start a new posting name,two here have done so and I support them totally.
But others appear to be different, why, I stand right or wrong, by my comments,and support good reasons to change names we post under.
But some times it stretches the friendship.
And sometimes? is hypocritical,

It may well be that I in posting this, am talking to myself.
But while not uncivil debate the issue of multiple personality's is being aired yet again.
Maybe it is just a shadow,a thought without evidence.
No intention to say anyone is posting here under two or more tags, sock puppet.
But is it ok to claim to be one person, and actually be another from another time here too.
A twist to the well talked about unmasking, at best unwise as everyday shows, the Internet is a place to be wise.
We leave behind us in forums much about our selves, some thoughts we no longer hold and some we wish we had not.
But the ability to shed our skin ,become some one else, does it contribute to civil or uncivil debate?

Belly, not quite talking to yourself.

I've got mixed views on changes of name. Some have done it gracefully, making it clear that it's just a change of name, others seem to have done it to deceive.

I've thought of name changing a couple of times to get a more expressive name but so far it's not something I've taken seriously.

R0bert

your not talkin to your self mr bell
often when people dont got nuthin to say
its cause its allready been said

dont take things personally
juliar and phoney toney love each other
[their name calling is fore-play]

often its 'best mates'...[happy families]..
who got the worst hates..look at hawke/keating

changing the name
dont change what we are each trying to say

i have only used one under god..for years
[i refuse to change...as that name is what i posted
all my post/info under...

its really upsetting
to be accused of name changing..
when its a thing i refuse to do..on principle

i may have been right on occasion
ignored on other..but those who seek to know me
ned only look under the one name..not my real name..

but the part my posting seeks to return back to
the first cause...[god]..that we become as one under god

he comes first.
.then[to him]..he puts us first..

but we all rate second..
only to good[god]

when will we all be
as 'one'..under god?

[Deleted for abuse.]

[Deleted for abuse.]

[Deleted for abuse.]

OUG you are a bit of topic.
And in all probability unaware of just why I said that.
Posters such as your self RObert have in my view no need to change a name, OUG too.
Two both women have and supported by me.
It purely is intent, if that intent is to pull the wool over any ones eyes ,I question it.
I am watching question time, yes it has always been bad but we you and I folks put these people all sides in there.

[Deleted for abuse.]

dann it
were having a civil debate
but even if its un-civil...its only a debate..[de bait]

there is nothing wrong with changing our names
it should be as easy as logging out and logging back in
with the same email..[there can/must be no implication of any guilt]
its a basic right*

to read anything into name changing is absurd
flaming re a name is still just a flame

civil debate shouldnt overide a inherant right*
to tell our opinion with honesty..in an open forum
[under whatever alias suits what we need to say]

sadly i see many deleted posts
meaning good peoople think others to have erred
often on the surface often things look worse..till publicly explained

deletion forever fixes the thought/word
into our minds..

now recalling[often wrongly]..
what was REALLY said...but worse
those who said it..now feel less inclined to reply
often..Never again...please guys...go easy on each other..!

were all here
helping each other
even the most rabid person
needs to feel they are included
FEEL they are freely able to speak...and more..to be clearly heard

the thought comes into my mind
[grow a pair]..but as i dont know
what that mean's...

[i put it down...as a comment*]
not a question

next point please

no
i have said what i feel
lets just grow up...accept ourselves as being different

and glory that our others...
each have their own face..
their own unique thoughts...our own unique opinions
our own fates and our own learnings/teacgings[wisdoms]

we have all been wrong[on occasion]
as well as right...its only opinion

which we more gain..?..in correction where we got it wrong
or in nice words..when in your opinion..we got it right

they are the pair..
we all must grow

Dear OUG,

Thanks for that and, -how right you are.
It is apparent that we all have a continuing obligation to work
on our attitudes.

I may have missed some declarations or something but it just bemuses me when name changers think they are in the closet like Thorpie.

So is Foxy out as Lexi?
Is morganzola/talisman out as CJ?
Is Ammonite out as Fractelle/Severin?

Is it rude to out someone or call them by a previous name?

Is it hypocritical or cowardly or duplicitous to leave after making a grand 'statement' and then sneak back as if nothing happened?

OUG how many times have I said I will not respond to you.
About ten.
My shins are black from your verbal bruising but in truth I think you mean well.
You however often get face about on the horse and gallop off in other directions.
This thread was about bigger fish, but driven by events that took place I diverted it.
It was never my intention to hold ANY ONE on Houlies list to account.
I wanted to higjhlight one poster.
Sure am baffled by Boaz Davids shed full of old names,but not offended.
I HAVE BEEN TARGETED done true great harm, for not using my true name here.
After excepting the TAUNT/CHALLENGE I did say who I was.
No need to get further involved,but one suffering and being treated for an illness not to be mentioned, told lies did great personal harm.
It is OUG my view truly held, in all probability one for sure, two probably, post here under other names.
To deceive.
Lexi you know without doubt I support you, Houlie has again lost me.
But while I am as combative as any one it is not worth it .
OUG just for a second look at my post,understand this, do you think some should say or do anything they wish, then return using another name?
When I am wrong right, or silly I will remain me and hold myself accountable for my actions.

Dear Belly,

I know you're a friend and I am grateful. Not only for your friendship but simply for you being you. You're one of my favourite posters and that's because you've got integrity. Plus you actually listen to what others have to say and respect opinions that differ from yours.

As for name changes and the motives behind them? That's someone's private business and none of ours on a public forum such as OLO. People have their own reasons. Sometimes its simply to get on with their lives. They may have had an unpleasant episode they prefer to put a full stop - and move on, wanting to put things behind them.

Anyway, as I said - this is a public forum and people are entitled to anonymity because as you've stated earlier - we've learned from experience - divulging too much about ourselves can have bad consequences. There are some nasty people out there.

But don't you find it embarrassing?

I can understand the changing names in the first place, it's the denial in the face of overwhelming consensus akin to a person believing that if they click their fingers they are invisible and nobody can see them.

It's like walking around with a huge zit on your nose and thinking nobody will notice. Why deny reality? Why expect others to play along with your game?

'You're one of my favourite posters and that's because you've got integrity.'

Envying what you don't have. How nice. Much more integrity than someone who makes a huge statement about leaving and goes off in a childish huff, then comes back under a different name and wants everyone to pretend nothing happened. Even getting upset when people dare to point out the obvious. You act like it's some taboo topic and the people pointing out you have no clothes are the ones in the wrong.

You go on about people like Tony Abbot, you go on about integrity but expect everyone on OLO to play along with this imbecilic pretence.

It's pretty hard to have any respect for someone who hasn't the balls to admit mistakes and thinks the world should wipe their slate clean because they don't want to deal with it. Such generous kid gloves aren't forthcoming in return either that's for sure.

Dear Houellebecq,

Mind your own business.
Mine is none of yours. I don't owe you any explanations
especially since you've already made up your mind about
something you know nothing about. I have no intention
of responding to any of your stirrings, apart from this one time. I've made that mistake in the past. As for showing empathy to others?
I shall let my record speak for itself on this Forum.
I am not interested in inter-acting with you as I've stated previously.

'I shall let my record speak for itself on this Forum.'

As Foxy or Lexi?

"Caustic Quips," compiled by Sally Barnes

Is anything about you sincere or authentic Foxy? Do you enjoy the self delusion of this Mary McKillop persona you attempt to portray in vain? Do you really think anyone buys it?

Mary McKillop persona?

Hardly.

"Charlie's Angels?"

Definitely!

That Houlie is purely weak, you are taunting and targeting Lexi.
I know I live in a glass house, am no angel but your taunts are becoming childish.
Now every thing Lexi has said about our names is true,
I stand firmly by my own view too.
Libel laws and a respect for OLO and its owner chains me.
But today a poster who followed me about, in real life and here, who in fact bought great pain.
Is posting,under another name.
That is my target,not normal changes.
Another, I can not prove this one, who I think was part of that, seems to have returned.
It is that fear,nothing else,refusal to live in the skin they contaminated that concerns me.
I truly am who I am always ,but it was me, who advised a woman not to unmask here she did she suffered I would be less than a man not to support her in her new name.
Houlie take your shots at me bloke leave the Lady's alone I can take it ok.

gosh, I love a good arguement.
To bad were trying to have a debate!

belly quote...""OUG just for a second look at my post,understand this, do you think some should say or do anything they wish, then return using another name?""

personally i hate people leaving
as i understand from a lter post
you said someone was stalking you
and now returned to posting under a different name
[or something like that]

thing is belly ..YOU KNOW grayham
will jump hard on anyone hounding others
or defaming them..or simply name calling...and using wrong grammer

but the important thing is you know who is hounding you
simply push the deletion button..each time they do it..and they soon go

dont react to them
you know your a good person
and so too must they...be the bigger man
and turn the pest into an allie...or just ignore them
[people HATE being ignored][thats worse than simple name calling because thats all they got]

it pains me you take my words so seriously
you know i hate both parties..and near all polititions
but mate i cant hate you...and respect you..and would hate to loose your thoughts

but i feel like that with near all here
many i wouldnt befreind in life...

but here on these pages i can get ]
they wisdoms..and overlook their foolishness
because i know i have said folish things...

and after all
its what we hate in others..
we also hate in ourselves...when others hate
i feel pity for the hater..

they must really hate *that
in themselves

more than..in..the one

who now knows
a truth..or a faulsity..
that explains the 'others' actions

its NOT KNOWING why others hate you..that gets confusing

[cause then
i dont know whats in THEM..
that they..*need to..hate me so poorly..[ignorantly]

we are both of the old school
our good name is...if not everything..then a thing we should protect by carefull thought..not just loose opinions...posted in hate

[oops that was supposed to read posted in haste]
but it seems apt..to leave the strong word stand

if you dont truelly fully vermanently HATE..
then go easier on each other....those who dont know you
as well as we do..just might think .

...well anything..that helps them rastionalise out..
the WHY?..of such strong passions..usually reserved..for ex lovers

thus lacking completly..
in proper reserve.

I am no saint OUG you too are not.
No thread stays on track it is human nature.
You see, if you wish to look, truly uncivil acts here.
And if just you and I, no one else,review our posts we can see constructed knowing prodding of others in our posts.
Augmentative people are real people,debate demands differences, in any discussion,it is possible to ignore other views.
It is also,for those with open minds, possible to learn from even adopt others views.
It has been some time, apart from spam and such, that I run to report to GY he has enough on his plate without us constantly pulling on his sleeve begging him to act against our foes.
Now mate, yes I intensely dislike the needless spiteful acts of that poster.
But try constantly to ignore ,OUG some times it is cowardly not to stand for who you are.
And if the taunt comes from some one ill equipped to judge, is it any better.
Confrontation is human and in the mix of a pie we begin to remake every day as needed as flour in any pie, good manners too and understanding should go in the mix.
And the right to be heard must come with the ability to hear others too.
Stalking is by the way the word I would use in relation to that name changer.

Belly it's alway's a hard call when to hit that button. I don't recall ever using it in relation to a post aimed at me. I have used it a few times recently to help Graham stay on top of some of the personal spat's which seem to becoming more common again. I've seen the frustration in the past where a thread has degenerated into a series of personal insults and Graham wasn't aware of it until it had dragged on for a while.

For those who think the site is worth more than somewhere to take a pee that stuff is frustrating. Keeping the balance between stimulating and worthwhile discussion and banter/humor without a lot of scope for vindictive nastyness must be a challenge for Graham.

The exchanges I had years back with some members of a group on OLO reinforced to me how much I don't want to be easily tracable in the real world. I'm quite certain that some would have had no hesitation in trying to cause serious real world harm (not all of them).

I doubt that I could get away with changing my OLO identify for more than a few posts even if I wanted to. I couldn't be bothered doing the contortions necessary to try and hide my writing style or thinking. Some have possibly done so but I suspect that most have been outed relatively quickly. As a self protection mechanism it seems rather pointless.

There are a few who having been nominated as returned posters where I chose to give them the benefit of the doubt, for others there is no doubt.

R0bert

RObert,sorry thought the last post was mine so did not reopen thread.
Yes to all, look let me be honest.
I did once say while I live I learn, that self education/learning is an every day need of mine.
I once fought back too hard and without balance, got it wrong very often.
May still do so.
But far better educated than me come here to insult any one, such egos are an affliction, not a benefit.,
Yes I remember your problem, it was mine too.
My intrusion in to my life left scares,both who inflicted them post in another thread using different names now.
I am a better person now,can have my say turn my verbal back and not look for trouble.
Civil Debate? yes every day we have it here along with a potent thing I find difficulty in finding the right word for.
Like an untidy and unpleasant preaching Christian on a bus ,standing mid Ilse and not letting us past, some must be heard must take audience, for views few share.
Not uncivil, not by intention, just a need to be heard/seen we can live with that, if we remember why it is done.

MickC, and Lexi,
I am only posting to you both because i see your serious posters. Since I joined OLO I been targeted.

I have said nothing- much
If you look under intuitions on the main page of this site you will see PALE.

http://portal.nationalforum.com.au/

It leads to this thread below from the little tag on the right hand side. I am a member of PALE. I post in my real name.

I am not posting as a intuition . I am saying openly I am a member. I am also a member of red cross & my local golf club pony club RSLclub .
This appears to be a problem to another poster on olo
Just because I am a member of something does not deny me the right to post as a person like the rest of you.
I am sure your all members of something or the other.
I doubt many others paid to be an institute member just btw!
On animal welfare matters - abattoirs etc I do post the most.
I am a retired farmer.

Pls leave me alone. Just enjoy olo &leave Kerry to do likewise is all i ask.

http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/member.asp?id=46

gosh, I love a good argument.
To bad were trying to have a debate!
Posted by MickC, Thursday,

Sorry MickC,

What would you like to debate? I just wanted to clear that up. Do you remember in school they used to have debate clubs? I think thats missing a lot these days.

As the reference was to me, and in a thread I started I just can not run away.
Honesty and openness, demands I say what I think.
I have no choice, am forced to believe in reincarnation.
Took very little time, but word for word KerryAnne you remind me of PALE.
You will remember some believed more than one posted under that name.
And the conflict between me, that group, and a poster,I believe acted on behalf of PALE.
That poster has returned, rarely but under a new name too.
I see he inhabits the forum you came from.
You may rest in Peace, I am ducking diving, even leaving threads, to avoid you.
Will not target you, do not believe I ever have done more than counter punch.
I strongly think Animal Welfare should be in better hands.
It is my right to think that way, my right to underline your links to Halal meat exports and here in Australia.
But you too have rights.
I thank you for evidence reincarnation exists but doubt I will live again rough as I am just plain Bely will do me.
I under take not to target you, but can you too, and I doubt it, do the same for me.
In threads like the one I left today I will leave again, if I think you are fishing.

It is so nice to be allowed to post in peace. Thankyou. & if you could stop posting all over olo about kerryanne it would be even better. Thankyou in advance. There are fyi many members of the institution but it is *not about selling meat. It is a programe to faze out live exports and create employment while improving animal welfare- not selling meat. Our partners in this programe are Dr Ameer Ali and others. A wonderful man/men/woman we are proud to call friends. I just posted this on another thread and they are also pale people. I hope you read this.
http://thuppahi.wordpress.com/2010/08/06/ameer-ali-of-peradeniya-perth-ban-the-burqa/#comment-859

& just because i proudly admitted to being one of the members of this organization - it still does not mean i cant post here has a person.

I was reading Lexi reply on this and i think Lexi maybe put it better than I.

btw they stopped making bex 30 years ago:) Peace be upon you.

Enjoy your evening.

For the second time today I leave a thread I started in the best interests of OLO.
Fair minded posters may find for me inmy last 25 posts, more if you wish, refferences to this combatative poster.
A similar search of her posts, distant past and present, may conclude the issue.
I did get it right, in my view it always has and will be impossible for this person to leave things alone.
A search, going back to threads named car park will be informative for newcomers.
Note I ignored the comment in the law is an ass but it anoys to know I will need to ignore a great deal more.

Belly I might be missing something but I think that you are over reacting. I'm trying to avoid regurgitating specifics of earlier times or naming names.

I wasn't aware of the exchange you were having when I made the earlier post but in a brief scan of recent posts I've not seen the extreme's or tactics that marked that earlier period. It's clear that the poster is posting as an individual, not in the name of an organisation. Nor have I seen posts which would give cause for genuine complaint within the context of the normal to and fro of OLO.

Be cautious that history does not make you see offence that's not necessarily there and don't allow it to create unnecessary conflict you don't want.

Cheers
R0bert

Thank you RObert.
Bloke done all that
truly never convicted any one in my life.
I am convinced the DNA is the same intent is the same, time will prove me right or wrong but watch the style closely in the coming weeks.
My radar has not let me down here.

*Stalking is by the way the word I would use in relation to that name changer.
Posted by Belly, Friday, 17 June 2011 6:07:42 AM*

Advise & nothing more. Comments as above / posted all through.
You&I*have disclosed a link to a organization &i''m not ashamed.
Wiser eyes& friends might advise you not to make foolish childish allegations.

Saying silly things reflects on you & people lose respect.
I say this like a mother not anger.
When i joined olo you attacked. That was my welcome& yes it upset me.
I acted quickly and openly.
I posted my number so you could ask anything you wanted.
I was concerned deeply about your allegations $ how it might effect me (given I posted my real name and address + number.)
You replied saying I might later.
What i learnt was years ago the owner said members could use one tag because they joined as an institution. This seemed to be a great problem for u.
That didnt give anybody *more posts. It was just their choice& a part being members all contributed to the institution costs. So they felt they *all should have the opportunity to post under that name tag.) Like u use ALP I note"

I didnt have to disclose being a member. I just wanted to be honest.

I think you behave a little paranoid sometimes. Nobody is / was stalking you&sure as eggs have more important things to do.

I am passionate about banning live exports& thats why I post here under my real name. Not some made up name- mine! I am dammed if I do& Dammed if I dont.

No wonder they left. Your not going to chase me away& thats final.
I have done nothing wrong/broken no rules/& your not the boss thank God. Apart from animals, I come here to relax -thats all& kerryanne is certainly not following u either here or in real life, or anybody else.
I hope thats the end of this.

Belly, I'd rather give Kerryanne the benefit of the doubt, if you are correct then that will show in time. In the mean time take things at face value and see what comes.

Kerryanne, "What i learnt was years ago the owner said members could use one tag because they joined as an institution. This seemed to be a great problem for u."

I'm trying to work out how to respond to that without re-opening an old debate. Given you've already hit flack from that history it may be worth you knowing some of the other side of that.

For the moment can I make it clear that what you've been told is a massive misrepresentation of how many others saw the issue.

For a quick summary try my posts at http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=989#17543 and http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=989#17579

A post by Ginx also is worth noting http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=989#17561

Cheers
R0bert

Hi Robert,
I read the links u posted &more. Your comments were fair but they did join as a member institute. Like u, not trying bring up past. &have no control. I know when those people joined it was to posted under the name of the institution group/i;m not. It was the way it was done . What i just read was people being abused for following the rules they were given at that time. If u stop to be fair, &u seem a fair man to me u must agree they couldn't have got any more posts than the others.If u feel i should see something else know i really looked. I just cant. & I think they got a raw deal.1500 $ they paid. I 'know that myself, as a member. &i think ( &i;m being honest) that your buddy was the problem then&i know its the trouble for me &my posts now. I get stuck it to it fighting for animals but 100% I did go out of my way to be nice. I think u have a friend with some problems Robert.&I removed my number after another poster warned me.If u really want to know after reading some comments & the consistent attacks i was very scared because i gave my address +number. I wont ever do that again.pale have done wonderful work&i'm proud to be a member but I;m just Kerry here. Not getting involved in anything else &i debate it as tough as the next for animals but i dont break rules.
Sorry i dont see what u see. I see a unwell person &I did my best.

Kerryanne, I'd strongly agree with not putting up details which would identify you. It's not just those who disagree with you to your face, there are plenty of others who don't post who you know nothing of.

I strongly disagree with you re Belly, his politics suck ;) but in my experience of him on OLO he is a really decent person.

"Like u, not trying bring up past. &have no control." - happy to leave it at that.

R0bert

Now Robert,
Dont put words in my mouth&I didnt say you friend wasn't a decent person but u yourself said /Belly I might be missing something but I think that you are over reacting/&if u look below>u got to agree its a bit over the top.
*Stalking is by the way the word I would use in relation to that name changer.
Posted by Belly, Friday, 17 June 2011 6:07:42 AM*

R0bert, your loyalty is commendable but i am the victim here&did nothing wrong. Maybe i will see u &agreed lets drop it.

Kerryanne, sorry not trying to put words in your mouth.

As an aside you still have identifying details in at least one of your OLO posts http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=4503#116104

I don't know if you've put that stuff else where in conjunction with your name but if you don't want want to be readily contactable I'd suggest you might want to ask to get that taken down.

R0bert

Robert,
Thanks! i took my number off but didnt see that.
I have Id myself &i have no id problems. Your name could be Daisy for all i know&nor care. I Id myself more than anybody on this site& i didnt have to.I tried to clear up being called a cheat.
I think thats what happened to others members years ago* thats why I post as me.! I wish now I had not told. Look at all the names- not peoples names just made up stuff & yet only I* have an id problem.You asked me questions& i have one. Did u pay one thousand five hundred$ to join? because they did. Didn't get any extra posts not one. Just people picking because posted in an organizations name * & shared costs. Most of u dont pay do u? Nor do I. but Jesus wept no wonder they left&yes i was warned but i just wanted to be me.!

RObert I return to address you, it is important to me that I do.
First thank you for advice you gave about personal security here and on the web in general.
You will be aware it has been of special importance to me here, you may not remember.
I do, a poster who makes me smile, the great damage inflicted on her after she [against my advice] put her e mail out.
I am not sniping, of every thing I own my home anything, of most value to me is my honesty.
My threads on this subject warn strongly, against being silly by releasing our names .
Now a poster, at a time I thought I did not know them praised me, put a link named a man called Belly in another forum.
And a phone number with an invitation to ring.
No OFFENSE MEANT TO ANYONE, I never wrote down that number had zero intention of ever making contact.
My radar warned me, my past in another hobby shouted no!
To share an interest in posting and talking here is no measure of if we want to invite strangers in to our life.
I can asure every poster I threaten no one.
I have read every post here, some in other threads too, got part way in to posting rebuttals then deleted them.
But I have an idea, lets see if others are interested in my next post this thread.
KerryAnne I ask only this, except I have no wish to know you but not ever will be a threat in any way to you.
I would hope animal rights is not going to invade every[it has in our past rudely] thread and baits do not appear seemingly aimed at renewing conversations.

Now for my idea I am repelled by words in this thread discussing funding for OLO.
It seemingly infers the amount paid should give, well I think it meant more posts?
Come think about this, what is OLO?
Why is OLO here.
In my view our young conservative owner [he will grow out of that] believes we should have a forum for public opinions.
And boy at times some of us, me up front, give him head aces.
Who pays.
Why.
We even see some complain about the adds!how much do we think it needs to keep us verbally at war?
I live now on less than one third of the average wage, in truth many who work do.
But will continue to give what I can.
IF WE FUND OLO, Graham could get the things he wants up and running.
Everything costs.
Do not give then, demand ownership/control/better/way,give to see us grow.
MY ham radio club has a closed email system, we could have our own one here,talk to each other learn about and with each other.
Have the right to lock some out,but give.
Some one should start a thread, Forrest we need you, ABOUT HOW WE BEST HELP OLO.
Civil? I cannot pledge to be civil all the time no one can,but surely we can find , think about it, a way to give back to OLO.

*It seemingly infers the amount paid should give, well I think it meant more posts?*

No No , dont go twisting things. I was simply answering questions. I just came to post as a person. I am not animals right either. RSPCA I support. I am just me.

Here is an idea

Why dont you mind your own business & I am sure if the owner or the moderator doesn't like something i do i will be told- hows that.?

I invited you to post about yourself because i thought it might be good for you belly & good for others. I will remove it.
The best way to give to ol is to write interesting articles.
Being retired does make changes but you can have fun growing veggies & making your own little short cuts.
I have two ladies just out of town and they grow everything& use vinegar &sunlight soap only for cleaning and washing with herbs.

http://www.pennypinching-grandma.com/house.html

Now if you look up- you promised to leave me alone. Go find a comment- any comment in which I have been rude or abrupt to you.
You cant & you wont. I am not that type of person but I do debate the topic with passion& a lot of knowledge.
There is a difference- As they say dont play the man play the ball.
You dont like Animals- I cant help that. I do. I probably wouldnt like the ham radio club & dont even know what that is.

Everybody is different - enjoy life its short

While the debate turned less than civil I would ask that posters who can, donate do so.
Yes rattling the tin mug again but we get more than we give out of OLO.
It is a service privately owned that we use and some could, without pain, help and do not
regards
Belly