Banjo:”I am sure Jewely did not mean to just ignore injustices in other countries, but there is plenty to do here.”

I may have, sorry Banjo missed your post while having my little rant at Houel.

We could fix it fast here couldn’t we? We’re not very big in population and if we started with the children? A focus on home first because we aren’t much good to anyone else’s children while our own are doing so poorly.

The only thing that seems missing is motivation and with everything that happens to children being a big secret and hidden behind privacy laws no one seems to know what is happening until some inquiry happens that few read.

This was interesting:

http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2011/s3224262.htm
“The CREATE Foundation blames government bureaucracy, saying the layers of red tape are stopping authorities from giving children in care vital information.
And many of the children concerned agree, saying the laws that are meant to keep them safe are actually causing them more problems.”

But then again who the hell are these people stepping in at the eleventh hour and who funds them? Looks like the NGO’s muddying the waters, I wish Govt would step up and make it their job and do their job.

5 year olds get forced to have sex here too Belly, we ought to fix that. We should be bloody enraged that it hasn’t been fixed. How embarrassing would it be for some other country to offer us aid to help with the abuses of children here?

Oh come off it Jewls, so no woman has ever been a brothel madam or reaped the rewards of the money her daughter brings home from her massage job in Bangkok?

No woman has ever stuck a needle up there because she knows a son has the ability to help her feed her starving extended family? No grandmother has encouraged it?

No woman has encouraged and agreed with the getting a bigger dowrry?

As usual, women get the free pass that says 'I am powerless, it's none of my doing.' Yeah right and bonnie was just doing clydes bidding.

'I’ve noticed there are some male presidents and military leaders, as well as CEO’s and pimps.'

I, as a man, bear no responsibility for the actions of other men. Women never have to say stuff like that because they never get blamed for everything, they can all just say, like pelican, that it's the Patriachy's fault, or like you, it's the male CEOs fault. But dear young Kiwi girl, I'm sure you have rocked down to the Wuddy Fuddy for cheap goods before. So why are you so pure and blameless for your part in the system, but those with testicles are all culpable for some guy who throws acid? Why is it any worse for a girl to be raped than a boy to be slaughtered with a machette and why is it more the father's fault than the mother's? Your argument is the wife is just fitting in and trying to survive and has no power but the husband is enjoying the whole situation and wants his kid killed and wants his daughter raped by the tribe next door?

So Belly, like I said, Western people have no Idea, and no we aren't talking about western people's lives, but the parrallel is obvious. All members of society contribute to the state of play, all are equally guilty. And guilt is what you're on about. Just so happens that I believe that the women in these societys are as guilty as the men.

'If we had been talking about the sins of a Church against boys who would blame the boys for not being reactionary enought to stop it.'

It wouldn't even be an issue. Actually, it would be a feminist critique about male 'culture' and the boys would be culpable by their retrospective membership of The Patriachy. Or maybe it would be a crime against mothers, with the little boys a side show to that. With the fathers being slightly to blame of course.

Houel:”I, as a man, bear no responsibility for the actions of other men. Women never have to say stuff like that because they never get blamed for everything...”

You should pay more attention to what a few of the men here say Houel.

Legally I bear no responsibility for the actions of other women, I hate the bad ones more though. Sexist of me but I’m just me.

Houel:”So why are you so pure and blameless for your part in the system, but those with testicles are all culpable for some guy who throws acid? Why is it any worse for a girl to be raped than a boy to be slaughtered with a machette and why is it more the father's fault than the mother's? Your argument is the wife is just fitting in and trying to survive and has no power but the husband is enjoying the whole situation and wants his kid killed and wants his daughter raped by the tribe next door?”

Do you mean “you” as in me personally or “you” as if I represent all women?

It’s not worse for a girl to be raped than a boy to be slaughtered with a machete... how come you didn’t ask if it is worse for a boy to be raped rather than killed? Remember I have cared for raped children of both genders and although all occasions it was a male that did the deed I suspect a women knew about it – I’m pretty equal in blaming everybody, all genders, all culprits and all witnesses in our culture. Other cultures I do believe and have witnessed the fathers treating their daughters and wives as lesser beings where the females have no way out.

But I got the idea you were going down the path of “women actually rule and the poor men get the blame” which grates a bit. Surprised me cause I never before picked up that you felt that way.

'But I got the idea you were going down the path of “women actually rule and the poor men get the blame” which grates a bit. Surprised me cause I never before picked up that you felt that way.'

Definately not. I just reckon the outward macho stuff that the man is ruling the house, even in these cultures, has a large element of BS. Some people even hide the whole dowry and bride price thing but make a show to keep up appearances. Men and women still love each other, love their kids etc

I bet the guy loves his wife on many occasions and puts her on a pedastal behind closed doors. I'm just trying to say that none of your general punters rule at all. But the men are always given this extra blame for the way society is set up, when they were born into it just like women were. There's also plenty of disadvantages for them and everyone's just trying to duck and dive and get by the best they can.

I suppose I just don't believe that people inately are evil. People react to circumstances, they get by, they have frailties, and I reckon it's a bit rich for the priveledged western woman to heap sh1t on some muslim bloke who paid the scoietal sanctioned bride-price and argue he hates women and abuses his wife. And argue that the women in the poor families are all sweetness and light and the men are really to blame because men 2000 years ago set up some order to society.

Belly I don't think you are being fair. I expect a pavlovian defensive response from Houlley you are usually more open minded.
Houlley what happened to your once even-hand, of late you are in their with the boot into women without thinking more widely on the subject.

WHERE did I say matriarchial abuse is a lesser evil - why was that your immediate response? Twisting one's words to suit an agenda is getting all too prevalent on OLO on many subjects. Some hostility on gender threads has become the norm however no matter of defensive responses can alter the fact that women in the developing world are treated and perceived very differently than men, no matter how some might attempt to spin it.

There is much evidence that the oppressed often become oppressors. Look at the Jews, the Muslims and many rebel-formed governments that often become as unworthy as the regimes they depose.

This does not make them any less culpable but merely reflects aspects of human nature.