it is so easy hitting out at bludgers
why is noone speaking of the costs
[tonies plan costs out arround 12 billion]

see working for dole costs near as much
as the dole they are trying to 'save'

look at when howhard privatised welfare[ces]
teriese rudd made millions..others also made millions
[putting people on work contracts for flat costs like 20 dolars an hour[regardless of at what hour or how many]

these 'self em-ploy-ed'..gwet no holidays
no leaveloading no sick pay no super..we have been here before

you want to save money pick on the big guys getting govt handouts
[like those people bulding school hals via sub contracted subcontacters]..or putting pink bats in roofs or solar cells on ya roof

or like big pharma cleaning up on nicoten gum
[subsidised by me-di/bank..or who ever]

or those privatising water/electicity/roads
its funny how its easy to pick on the poor dumb mug forced to accept the best they can expect from our govt is a poor education and dole..

[giving away rights
being forced to beg]
unable to give their kids what honest work is supposed to give

its so easy to pick on the poor
so others can collect go0vt money to force them to pick weeds
or plant trees or build fences for rich farmers

[just some of howards other work choice gifts]

you want to reform welfare
let govt servants deliver it
not capitalists

OUG,

What's the collective noun for stereotypes ? You've certainly provoked a search for one :)

Any chance of working with reality ?

Fencing for rich farmers ! The average cocky will get a kick out of that one.

I don't think you can get anymore spot on OUG than with your last post.

Thinker 2

Thinker 2,

'Learn and earn': pathways must be found and promoted to take people from where they might be, to employment. This may involve literacy and numeracy programs, English-language programs, work-habits programs, a whole range of programs in jails to ensure that people come out better-skilled and hopefully less inclined to seek 'income through crime', programs for single mothers returning to the work-force, and so on.

'Learn and earn': I went to TAFE at 34, to do a genuine course, then on to university. Without those appropriate sorts of bridges at that time, I don't know where I might be now. Probably still picking fruit, with a crook back and knees. It's not such a bad job, a young person's job, but not for life.

Joe

Hi Joe, I think before we turn jails in to schools, we would have to think about whom we incarcerate and why.

The whole system of crime and punishment is self perpetuating. And yet, there are only a limited percentage of really bad things or people that we can't prevent. They commit acts that endanger the rest of us, or life.

We extend our view of "what it is that endangers life" by creating rule's, frameworks and prohibitions. Most people incarcerated are so, because of breaking one of those rules, stepping outside one of those frameworks, or participating in a prohibition.

Just how many really bad people are incarcerated ?,enough to control what goes on within it. Enough to impact negatively on the lives of most people imprisoned within it's walls.Most of this problem could solved with more sensible regulations.

I guess I'm optimistic Joe, I know there are some really bad people out there, but not as many as the number of people we incarcerate. Some are victims of circumstance, some innocent, some bystanders, some unable to control events around them. Who knows Joe.

How many people have you met that are truly bad in your life ?. People you know that the rest of world would be better off if they were behind bars.

Depends on your associations. The circles in which you exist, or would prefer not to exist.
Your possibilities, these things are learnt in a sort of school of hard knocks in our jails today as I understand it Joe.

Although I cant confess, to have ever having been there.

Ok, so why don't we all just bury our heads in the sand and say it's all just to hard.

I think I might just sell off a spare property or two, you know, take the pressure off a bit. Who knows, in ten to 20 years from now, after having lived the life of riley, I to may also be eligible for welfare.