Thinker 2,

With the proviso that 'if you do the crime, you do the time', I couldn't agree more with you - incarceration should be more, or other, than punishment and confinement.

It should provide the opportunity for people - and we punish the crime, the deed, not really the doer - to improve their life-chances, through education, among other things, so that they will be less inclined to commit further offences after they have served their time.

And OF COURSE there should be a range of appropriate education programs to move people into satisfying employment BEFORE they/we feel the need, and to minimise the desire, to commit offences - programs to overcome whatever obstacles stand between them and satisfying employment. It seems that employed people are far, far less likely to commit serious offences: maybe I'm wrong ?

The bottom line is simply that we all should make our way in the world by putting in as least as much as we take out. Nobody has some eternal right, or privilege, to live off the labour of others. We each have a social obligation to do as much for others as they should do for us.

So society also has obligations to ensure that those of us who are not ready for employment are helped to make themselves ready. Once they/we are able to work, then they/we can give back, in order to help others in similar situations.

No, there doesn't have to be any issue of punitiveness about getting people off welfare and into satisfying employment - what matters is how to devise the most appropriate programs to help bridge the gap, and they would tend to be educational/skills-oriented programs. Yes/no ?

you cant have missed the advert on top of the page
based on million dollar drop
[it reminds me of the billion dollar crop]

[re howhards working poor working it off
for the well off ..working for welfare poor as job providers]

WE SORT the applic-ants
WE sort those getting the intervieuws

if your not withus
were are sent against you

are you one of the surviving 3
or will you be one of the 6 who goeas the fall?

we see much the same imagry on the world vision advert
the masses..and zooming in on the one

then subliminally we see how the trickle down affect works
[as all the blacks bleed ibnto oranges]

we are being played
if i was given the power to chose
who do you think i would chose joe?

would i give it to you?

or others
who i feel
might be more of like mind?

thing is mate
if your one who got dropped into the vacume
it was by someone chosing who wins and who loses

[mate realise the same thing as in movies and acting
its not what you know..but who you know]

i done a few tafe courses as well

i recall i once did the research for a bicicle repair shop
scouted out location..costed rents..worked a day [at their prefered bike shop..] for free

drew up inventory lists costings
locations and market research..etc

went for the govt grant...
and lo didnt get a thing...

...but a bicycle shop appeared in the place ..i found

[and as to why i didnt get it
a simple phone-call..my wife took..
asking who we voted for]

you never know when
its your turn to take the fall
there are those who know how to play games

http://www.revoltoftheplebs.com/categories/occupied-palestine/goldstone-%e2%80%98retractions%e2%80%99-vs-facts/
http://dailybail.com/home/ronald-reagan-on-ges-tax-avoidance-in-1985-i-didnt-realize-t.html
http://dailybail.com/home/tax-avoidance-by-us-corporations-1995-vs-2011.html]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qygEcorvKMs

http://jewishcrimenetwork.blogspot.com/p/israel-did-911-all-proof.html
http://www.revoltoftheplebs.com/categories/news-analysis/zionists-in-war-with-consciousnesses/

http://blog.alexanderhiggins.com/2011/04/04/radiation-study-estimates-200k-cases-cancer-fukushima-nuclear-fallout-13880/
http://www.bushstole04.com/911/9-11_lies_war.htm

Sorry, OUG, I've got a very short attention-span, about two seconds (very handy for an ex-smoker). But as far as I can understand you, are you talking about corruption in small-business and job placement ? If I get you, then you're probably right.

For all that, and all that, you keep going, keep trying - it's a b@stard of a world sometimes. Learn and earn: keep going until you get there. What's the alternative ?

Joe

Excessive taxes. How much more will they take from you?
https://www.ideservetobeheard.com.au/home.php

The government has already hit you with a 25% tax increase on your cigarettes in April 2010. How much more will they take from you? It’s time to get involved, speak up and say enough is enough.

Did you know?

As of February 2011, about two thirds of the $18.25 recommended retail price for Peter Jackson 30s is government tax.

Less than 1% of tobacco excise taxes is put towards preventative health measures such as anti-smoking campaigns. (Source: National Preventative Health Taskforce, Technical Report 2, 2008)

The recommended retail price of Peter Jackson 30s has increased by 109% since 2000.

The real price of cigarettes has tripled since 1983. (Source: National Preventative Health Taskforce, Technical Report 2, 2008)

Now’s your chance to write to your local MP to say NO to more tobacco tax increases, NO to more bans on smoking outdoors and NO to plain packaging of cigarettes.

Click here to send a letter to your local MP.
https://www.ideservetobeheard.com.au/getInvolved/writeLegislator.php

OUG, yeah,

As an ex-smoker, I fondly remember when a packet of fags cost only 3/4, i.e. 33 cents, at the time of the decimal changeover in 1966. Wages back then were around $40/wk, so a packet cost the equivalent of a 120th of a week's pay. But as an ex-smoker, I am happy if the government racks up the tax to discourage current smokers - us ex-smokers are utter b@stards that way :)

And getting back to topic, pretty clearly, a smoker who finds herself or himself unemployed should seize the opportunity to give it up once and for all. It's not so hard - I've done it many times myself.

Joe

sorry about the previous post
that was of course meant to be at the smoking banning topic

i just visited my regular news site
http://whatreallyhappened.com/

just about every topic screams for hearing
but i will reply your question
'whats the alternative'

there is no one fix it for all the problems
like nbm cancelling all tender aplications..because the main tenders plan to sub tender it out[thus have boosted up their tender price]

the cure for this one is for govt to do the cable replacement..itself
[using work for the dole]..to do the 'work' needing to be done for a reasonable distance from home[say 5 or ten k]..with a bonus or share in their labours

[say free web connection or a value in shares]

how to fix the govt debt problem..is via people needing to deney its obligated on them to repay ODIOUS debt[ie debt criminallly laid upon them..[re the p.i.g.s][bailing out bankers isnt govt responsability..[thats why they got fed reserves for]..

govt putting out bonds is why the fed was created
before the bankers subverted it into their own privatised franchise[literally a money creation machine]..by fiat[by decree]

trouble being they created a fiction..
that had no value in it]..so they simply 're-possesed' homes]
they never possesed in the first place
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/04/some-banks-should-face-criminal-charges-over-foreclosuregate/236838/

of course there are other problems
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5151512921334112942#
but these can be cured by govt seizing assets globally
[nationalisation]..
then returning to honest currency based on coin
[at real 'true'values]..1 cent=1 dollar]

leaving the fiat paper and securities market
to live [or die]..by the capitalists sword
[viability or non viability]
honest product/service

workers get paid in cash coin
not fiat credit..[in paper/notes]

why?
the system is broke
only the poor arnt broke
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBSMyS1CdL8&feature=related
and govt governs for the poor
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5151512921334112942#
http://dailybail.com/home/video-from-bankrupting-america-whos-more-responsible-charlie.html
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/ndebt.php
http://dailybail.com/home/government-capture-by-the-big-4-accounting-firms.html
http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/KWN_DailyWeb/Entries/2011/4/5_Richard_Russell_-_US_Dollar_Collapse_Will_Accelerate.html
http://dailybail.com/home/vanity-fair-exclusive-billions-over-baghdad-how-9b-disappear.html
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/ARTICLE3/index.php