That is where we are different rehctub. I don't have a "lot" - that is your mindset, not mine and the very problem I am writing about above.

Hold ALL politicians to account not just the team you usually bat for.

I have criticised Labor policy a number of times on this forum and even disagree with the Greens on a Carbon Tax (mainly because it won't work in reducing emissions, it is hypocrtical when we are exporting loads of carbon emitting coal and importing goods/food we can produce here, and will put Australia at a disadvantage).

I don't think you have ever criticised anything the Coalition has done - you just let them get away with it.

We were better off when I was a kid in the 70s. Maybe we did not have all the luxuries we have now but we owned our houses earlier, rents were affordable, the level of personal debt was low, small business were looked after, there was no GST, and the public owned all-important utilities, communications, a bank and an airline. It wasn't perfect but it was something to build upon. Instead of building on this 'imperfect' social democracy later governments (both ALP and Coalition) set out to destroy those very foundations.

Pelican>>That is where we are different rehctub. I don't have a "lot" - that is your mindset, not mine and the very problem I am writing about above.

>>Hold ALL politicians to account not just the team you usually bat for.

I do!

>>I don't think you have ever criticised anything the Coalition has done - you just let them get away with it.

How about, the baby bonus, someone else's war, the sale of Telstra. I have always opposed these.

>>rents were affordable,

Well actually, they were higher, as a percentage of the value of the property.

In my home town, a house was worth about $7,000 in the early 70's and rented for about $15 a week.

That same home today is worth $350K and should therefore rent for $740 per week, yet rents for $350. Plus, today's landlord has more regulations to adhere to and more bills than you can poke a stick at, no to mention next to no rights, compared to the tenant.

>>the level of personal debt was low,

Governments did not cause this, society did by wanting what they couldn't afford, you know, interest free.

There was also the introduction of the 'non bank' institutions, who placed huge strains on banks with their lack luster lending policies. Eventually, the banks had to cave in and follow suit.

Prior to this, no one could borrow beyond their means. You know, 'no cash, no splash!

Where the governments failed was in allowing it to fester into what it is today.

It's our version of the US sub prime mortgage. Difference is, over there one can simply walk away.

>>Instead of building on this 'imperfect' social democracy later governments ...

Simply answer. To many snouts in the trough.

You see, we now have two, maybe three generations who think it's their given right to have children and expect someone else to pay for them, even if they blow their own limited funds on grog, cigs and pokies.

Combine this with a diminishing tax revenue and the end result is we are heading south.

its only too easy to tax carbon

but the other ozone depeting gasses
are the real problem[if there even is a problem]

[they are..*by affect..
hundreds of times worse

thus they on a comparison graph..*look small
[in the spin of numbers]

but ...by*affect
are much ..MUCH LARGER

facter in the methane
from 40,000 leakey coal-seam gaswells
in qld alone

the extra methane
as coal mining continue's.. their increase

the index
http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/aggi/

notes nitrouse oxide..as increasing
as well as the..'other'..far WORSE gasses

BLAMING taxing.. *one gas
cant rebut ...*all of them

but lets rebut
their LIE

''Of the five long-lived greenhouse gases
that contribute 96% to radiative climate forcing,
[by QUANTITY..not affect]
CO2 and N2O are the only*ones...LOL
that continue to increase...at a regular rate.""

the buzz word..96%
[quantity not quality]!

from their own graph
cfc11 has near doubled
cfc12 0.092 to 0.170
n20 0.099 to 0.173
ch4 0.410 to 0.502

more spin quote

""Radiative forcing from CH4 increased from 2007 to 2009 after remaining nearly constant from 1999 to 2006.

the radiative forcing of the long-lived,well-mixed greenhouse gases increased 27.5% from 1990 to 2009 (~0.60 watts m-2),

''CO2 has accounted for nearly 80% of this""..[27 percent]..""increase''[by ammount not affect]

BUT THE OTHER
ARE all..RISING TOO

''''The five major greenhouse gases
account for..*about 96%
of the direct radiative*forcing'"

buzzwords?

The remaining 4% is contributed
by the 15 minor halogenated gases.

these have MORE than TRIPPLED
0.031 to 0.103

so it all depends
on who is spinning it

c02 sure AINT NO HOCKEY STICK

""Except for the HFCs and SF6,which do not contain chlorine or bromine,these gases are also *ozone-depleting gases

radiative forcing for the major gases and a set of 15 minor long-lived halogenated gases(CFC-113,CCl4,CH3CCl3,HCFCs 22,141b and 142b, HFCs 134a,152a,23,143a,and 125,SF6,and halons 1211,1301 and 2402).""

tax these
to stop the spin

remember when..we were told the ozone hole
was going to create warming
and we got cooling...LOL

The NOAA..[Annual Greenhouse Gas Index(AGGI),
is still run..*by science types..
that are good ..at SPIN

what govt..ever saw
a new tax..it didnt LOVE?

what special intrest
dont love..*easy GOVT_CASH?

Well I agree with you last comments rehctub. Maybe we agree on more than we disagree. :)

rehctub,

"...society did this by wanting what they couldn't afford...."

Well, yes....this is what the push for never-ending growth has achieved - and it is encouraged almost from the cradle to the grave....not good for a balanced life.

I'm with Pelican....I agree with the points in your last post.

Question. 1. What percentage of the atmosphere do you think is CO2?

Respondent’s Answers: nearly all were 20% - 40%, the highest was 75% while the lowest were 10%- 2%.

The Correct Answer: CO2 is less than a mere four 100ths of 1%! As a decimal it is 0.038%. As a fraction it is 1/27th of 1%. (Measurements for CO2 vary from one source to another from 0.036%- 0.039% due to the difficulty in measuring such a small quantity and due to changes in wind direction e.g. whether the air flow is from an industrialized region or a volcanic emission etc)
Nitrogen is just over 78%, Oxygen is just under 21% and Argon is almost 1%. CO2 is a minute trace gas at 0.038%. We all learnt the composition of the air in both primary and high school but because most people don’t use science in their day to day living, they have forgotten this. Also, the vast bulk of the population have very little knowledge of science so they find it impossible to make judgements about even basic scientific issues let alone ones as complex as climate. This makes it easy for those with agendas to deceive us by using emotive statements rather than facts. For a detailed breakup of the atmosphere go to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmosphere_of_Earth#Composition.