Perhaps there is still some sense in the world.

The US house has voted, 244 to 179, to stop funding that master of all scams, the UN IPCC.

One member read the US senate report of more than 700 scientists dissenting the theory of AGW.

How long will it take for other intelligent nations to follow suit.

I would expect it would take years for Oz to do so, our government want/need the money, from a climate tax scam, too much to follow such a sensible course

World poverty could certainly have been greatly reduced if all that money went to feed the hungry. The science is now settled. It is the opposite result to what the alarmist told us. Hopefully our Government will be tossed out as they invent a tax to appease Green faith. Up and up go the heating bills for pensioners while the high priest burn up credits flying the globe to connect and reassure others with the same pseudo faith. Pathetic journalism has a lot to answer for. The National Broadcasters have been absolutely atrocious when it comes to balance. No doubt I will be dead before we get an apology from them for protecting their dogmas. Thankfully the likes of Bolt had the countries interest at heart in continuing to expose the hypocrisy of this nonsense.

Is it a scam?
And is America a good measure of such right now.
That same America has stopped a bill so money to see the health reforms so badly needed are not to go ahead.
America is inward looking and no measure of the rest of the world.

govts globally are bankrupt
mainly by giving away the rights to issue its own money

it need to lend every penny from bankers ..AT INTREST
thus it needs ever more taxes..to pay off the bankers
then it bails them out..its not working

thing is this scam is about getting yet more govt money
needing more tax from us paying for it all

we pay the big bucks to put solarcells on roofs
but it keeps industry going...thus they NEED to scare us
guilt us into ever more taxes..[heck it worked with ozone sars swine bird flue aids...we fall for it everytime..look at the newe tax on smokers..[the miners were too clever

but now we got a flood levy
but why did we get the flood
again gred and govt excess

qld govt owes 65 billion
selling the assets only payed one years intrest

but see how the water board hoarded the waters
then caused the flood when they HAD to let it go

this was a man made flood
its cause was greed
greed forced upon govt to pay the intrest on loans

we in qld owe double that of california
who is the biggest state in the world
and they are going bust

we are no where near their means
but got twice the ODIOUS debt

no brother
the scam is no where near being over
it ends with a bang..when we jail those who coluded this odious debt
then guilted us into paying for ever more subsidised industry built on credfit

but the intrest is due
they will default in the end
but not till we hit the streets
and jail the real criminals can this lie end

we could be saved by a transaction tax on all trades
the market is being manipulated...but its time to tax those causing the problem..no more taxes by guilt from the people

the lies wont end
be asured of that

No it is not a scam in the way you seem to think.
The IPCC followers really believe it and I suspect that our government
believes it also.

However they are worrying about the wrong problem for two reasons.
First, the Uppsala Uni's findings of the true amounts of available
fossil fuels. They are much less that the IPCC's three levels
input into their climate models. The IPCC has not re-run their models
as far as I know. Until they do we are making decisions on taxes etc
with duff data. GIGO ! (Garbage in Garbage Out).

Second, we are heading into a zero growth era. As the available
energy hits a plateau as oil has already done growth cannot rise on
average globally. As energy starts depleting we will enter a period
of contraction.

In the above scenario increasing CO2 in the atmosphere will be a non event.
I can only suggest that you go and read these pages;
If you are able to see the implications on these pages you will
understand why everyone is worrying about the wrong problem.

http://www.postcarbon.org/article/254838-earth-s-limits-why-growth-won-t-return

for more detail;

http://www.postcarbon.org/

http://www.aspo-australia.org.au/

That's right Hasbeen. The House voted along conservative partisan lines. What else would you expect, really?

It's unfortunate, imho. Science should not be voted on party-politic lines, but it is. You yourself demonstrate this universal ignorance of science. Indeed, what the neo-cons are best at are neo-conservative BAU policies.

This ostrich-like mentality is borne out by the US House vote, as you so proudly proclaim. The House doesn't like the message so the House (typically) kills the messenger. Wow, so proactive a thought process, not!

The actions and thoughts of the US House vote, are both unintelligent and immature, but there you go.

This decision is really not in the US interests. The US House is going to limit the US from organising IPCC meetings and co-ordinating IPCC chapters.

Moreover, it will now be extremely difficult (if not almost impossible) for the US to engage with countries like China, Europe and India on climate change issues.

It was important that the US have a say in a global response but now the House is scuttling the ship.

What the US conservatives have done Hasbeen is say to the world: "we don't like your rules ... give me back my ball and I'm going home."

That attitude is indicative of a retrograde stick-in-the-mud, not mature or intelligent enough to involve themselves in the common good. Sadly, the US will suffer the consequence of this for years to come.

If America, under 'tea party' conservative politics, is the direction they want to pursue, then they will. Unfortunately, it says more about the people (not unlike yourself, Hasbeen) than that of the science ... which still has to be done.

Bazz, you have read AR4, right?
You do know they project a decline in growth, don't you?
As far as you know, Bazz? That says a lot.
Then again, this is just an opinion site - one of thousands.

Bonmot;
I read parts of it a while back.
They do project in one of the three projections an increase in fossil
fuel usage. The other two have a flattening curve I understand from
the Uppsala article.
However the Uppsala paper has a typical Hubbard curve.
The IPCC is from what I can see working on a 2100 end point.
Projections in the energy field looks at an end point near 2040 or 2050.
Not much point in going further with fossil fuels.

I strongly rely on scientific evidence to say.
Global warming is real.
Each of the last ten years has recorded record high and low temperatures.
Record numbers and force Tornado's or hurricanes.
Rain fall and droughts.
I can however remember creeks I swam in as a kid that no longer run, rivers that are now black forever.
In my lifetime we have seen more than twice our population on birth day till now.
At my birth cars belonged to few a road smash was rare now the numbers are 10 maybe 50 times those.
And on life's journey this supporter of America has seen the Republicans become less trust worthy than a mad rattle snake, look else ware for something like balanced thought

"""
February 18, 2011

NASA and the ESA agree, and so does the Russian space agency, Roscosmos—the sun is headed for a Grand Solar Minimum and a Grand Cooling will commence.
"""
http://www.helium.com/items/2094726-scientists-suns-approaching-grand-cooling-assures-new-ice-age

I dunno? Hot, cold, warm, cool, rain drought, it's all bulldust. It's been happening forever! I'm more worried about the fools that think they can control it all with taxes, what a joke!

And while this feel good waste of time might make some think we're doing something good, this is the reality of what's really happening.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-1350811/In-China-true-cost-Britains-clean-green-wind-power-experiment-Pollution-disastrous-scale.html

bonmot, bonmot, quiet thy beating heart. It’s OK, you will be fine.

As we have suggested many times on OLO, the US is where the action will be. It only takes one significant player to break ranks for questions to be asked. It will however, be interesting to see how long it takes for our MSM to bring us this juicy news.

In the meantime, relax, take a deep breath and consider your future. There are so many other things happening in the world that will give you the opportunity to become an advocate for some other phenomena.

Think of it this way, you will have so much distinguished, respectable, well educated and high profile company as the “warmertariat” unravels. Just think of the stories you can exchange about the billions of tons of egg you have all inherited on your faces.

Just think of all the good you can do feeding the third world, I’m sure they like egg. Then you could publish a book of egg recipes. How about a reality shows like “My Egg Rules”, “bonmots kitchen nightmares” or even “The biggest Losers”.

First thing you must do though, is stop blaming everyone else. You bought it and it’s “buyer beware” I’m afraid. Time to move on.

In just FOUR DAYS, the volcanic eruption in Iceland, since its' first spewing of volcanic ash, NEGATED EVERY SINGLE EFFORT all have made in the past five years to control CO2 emissions on our planet .


The volcanic ash emitted into the Earth's atmosphere in just FOUR DAYS by that volcano in Iceland, has totally erased every single effort we have made to reduce the evil beast, carbon. And there are around 200 active volcanoes on the planet spewing out this crud out at any one time - EVERY DAY.

Mt Pinatubo erupted in the Philippines in 1991, it spewed out more greenhouse gases into the atmosphere than the entire human race had emitted in its entire time on earth. Yes folks, Mt Pinatubo was active for over one year.

The fact of the matter is that the bush fire season across the western USA and Australia this year alone will negate your efforts to reduce carbon in our world for the next two to three years...and it happens every year.

Just remember that our government is trying to impose a whopping carbon tax on you on the basis of the bogus “human-caused” climate change scenario. Hey, isn’t it interesting how they don’t mention “Global Warming” any more, but just “Climate Change” - you know why? It’s because the planet has COOLED by 0.7 degrees in the past century and these global warming bull artists got caught with their pants down.

Just keep in mind that you might yet have an Emissions Trading Scheme new tax - imposed on you, that will achieve absolutely nothing except make you poorer. It won’t stop any volcanoes from erupting.

spindoctor
Without being snide, snarky or snotty ... do you think the 'conservatives' will take money away from Earth System monitoring? Do you think they should?

Philo
Plagiarising Mr Evangelista will get you where, exactly?

http://www.wnho.net/letter_concerning_carbon_tax_and_global_warming.htm

To use the conservative term, it's *crap*, spread by a former food and drug investigator (aka wannabe climate scientist).

Almost forgot, RawMustard: I don't expect you to understand the science, but this paper puts the Grand Solar Minimum into perspective:

http://rspa.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/early/2009/11/27/rspa.2009.0519.full.pdf

You'll see your Dutch professor referenced.

Budding 'climate scientists' should try to be sceptical, that's what real scientists do. Real scientists don't let their ideological, religious or social affiliation sway their conclusions - unlike that shown by postnormal OLO internet pseudoscientists.

bonmot,
The reason the wheels have fallen off the AGW wagon is the alarmists own doing.

Alarmist propaganda with grossly exagerated claims and the disclosure that the 'scientists' were fiddling the figures.

I am sure the world will continue to warm and cool on its own accord as it always has done.

We have no influence over earthquakes, volcanos, continental drift or even the tides. Anyone who believes, without evidence, that we can alter the world climate has been suckered.

Those that still believe are flogging a religion, nothing else.

Banjo
I agree with you about "Alarmist propaganda with grossly exagerated claims". The world will not end in 2100.

However, even non-exagerated claims are bad enough. Yes, the "world will continue to warm and cool on its own accord as it always has done" (natural variation).

However, because we can measure the amount of energy in and out of the Earth System, we can account for unnatural variation.

Natural variation alone cannot explain the trends since we have been releasing vast amounts of energy into our oceans and atmosphere.

Sure, we have no influence over earthquakes, volcanoes, continental drift or even the tides. However, we do have influence over the amount of heat-trapping gases we release into the atmosphere.

There are other ways to provide our energy needs. This is a much more valid debate to have, btw.

If you believe 'scientists' were fiddling the figures then perhaps you have been suckered. Science is not a religion, despite the claims to the contrary.

How long will it take for MSM to bring us this juicy news?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/feb/21/republicans-funding-climate-ipcc

My guess? The Andrew Bolts, James Delingpoles, Anthony Watts et al won't be too far behind.

interesting stuff [between the lines] in lasts nights qanda and the four corners expo on the gas scam

to try to join the dots for you
tim flannelry stated the floods due to global warming..to wit the half wit said co2...[interstingly he was sitting next to anna blight the last alp pres..as he said it]

it was reminisant of a dummy activating its master
but back to the expose

recall earlier there was the gas scam in qld
recall there was gas bubbles bubbling from arround one of the proposed 40,000 leakey gas wells granted to santos et'al

well recall where they had this meter..reading one of the many leaks?
wel;l i do..the voice said methane was being detected...in the higher scale of the meter

now the thing is methane..[freely being leeched by man made gas pumps]is a greenhouse gas..in fact its 100 times WORSE than co2

ya with me?

methane is over 100 times WORSE than co2
and here we got tons of the stuff ..floating up into the sky
AND CAUSING THAT WARMING ..TIM WAS TALKING ABOUT
what caused ...CAUSED the bad floods and cyclone

are you seeing the big picture?

it was manmade allright
by greedy gas stealers drilling LEAKY wells
heating up the oceons..and making BAD cyclones and bad floods

thing is the flood neednt have happend
we built a dam to prevent that sort of stuff
but the dam makes cash for anna and her cartel of mates..[cadre"]

the flood was made worse by releasing the water they hoped to sell for more intrest payments on the 65 billion debt

expose continues

just as the gas was caused by greed
just as power is increasing to buy day time [not of peak] power for double what normal tarrif is [ie the feed in greed sceme]

where you get highly discounted solar cells..for near nothing
and they buy your daytime power for 44 cents a kiloWHAT?

while putting their full power on off peak supply
at arround 12 cents..and we muggins paying 22 cents are paying for it all

as power goes up..were told that is for infastructure..lol
yes giving those in on the scam ..extra cash [via feed-in tarrif and free solar cells]..as well as building pipe lines to link up those 40,000 leakey gas wells destroying the artesian basin

aint you too clever by half anna blight
this on top of cancelling your insurance...

[and not putting the prenium away for ther rainy day]
now a new tax we shall HAVE to pay

[while we got compulsory vehicle insurances
we need to pay or go to jail]

bonmot:>> Unfortunately, it says more about the people (not unlike yourself, Hasbeen) than that of the science ... which still has to be done.<<

Well bonmot, the science has already been done by Climate Change Professors with the aid of billions of dollars from the first worlds pockets, and the decision came in 2009.....They had to lie and manipulate the numbers to get a result they wanted, but they did it, and got caught. Since that was exposed as a filthy self serving lie not much else from them except the Goresque "the sky is falling" rhetoric, and whinging that the US will no longer fund Carbon Climate Change bullsheiser.

Sonofaloin: The sky is not falling. However, the consequences of the changing climate, small that it might seem now, will be bad enough.

It is important that measures are taken to adapt to the changes that lie ahead, and it is important that we wean ourselves off fossil fuels. This will take decades.

You don’t have to believe in AGW to do this, you don’t even have to understand the science (you obviously don't).

Nevertheless, if you understand anything about US legislature, you would understand that while the House has said it doesn’t want to donate (a relatively minor budgetary amount) to the funding of the IPCC, it still has to pass the Senate, controlled by the Democrats.

Regardless sonofaloin, it is obvious in this so called 'debate' that political, religious and socio-cultural ideology trumps science. No matter how many inquiries are had, and regardless of all the outcomes – you will believe what you want to believe – science fact won’t change your mind (this is also obvious).

Answer me this sonofaloin, do you think climate science funding should be cut, as the US Republicans and Tea Party want?

bonmot:>> Answer me this sonofaloin, do you think climate science funding should be cut, as the US Republicans and Tea Party want?<<

Answer me this Jim me lad, would you have the same teams of gravy train professors doing the research?

Careful there bonmot!

Those who hang on to the con for too long, hoping to resurrect the thing, are likely to be left holding the bag.

For some the only job left will be sweeping the streets. You should get out before it's too late.

Bonmot good morning, do not be trapped here your views, ones I share will not be heard here.
Worth noting the self confidence, on both sides, is showing.
And worth understanding one side is totally wrong.
I am prepared to be judged, even prepared to be proven wrong, and confident that will not happen.
Such threads are best avoided.
No intention to debate, roll the issue about , find pros and cons exist.
We would best serve our beliefs by not continuing to give reason to further insult the great number of us who hold opinions not shared here.
My last post in this thread,go ahead and insult me however I will read and chuckle over it till it dies.

its funny how the truth
allways comes out ..eventually

be-lie/quote...''however I will read''
lol

i knew it
in my last post i said ..the same thing

the new theory..is ignore it ..and it wil go away
by 'it' i mean ..any dispute with labrat policy..
its the latest instruction..to their bloggers

ignoring things..makes them go-away

but..egsamin the reasoning/behind the lie's

accountants and money specialists
say.. its 5 percent cheaper..to do it now

but the thing is ..if it wasnt ever/really..a problem*
...it was just a con ..to sepperate us from our cash..
and prop up oppertuinists ..who want govt cash-subsidies

and thats about all folks

funny how liers
reveal them-selves ..in the end

its been a great*scam
like all fear cam-pains

those wanting govt/cash wanted it now
and got it

and we will be paying for the scam
for a long time to come

but its not the only scam..!

remember the utterances
that gave us co-contributing retirment scemes
that cashed up the money-market..just when it was about to collapse[last time]

just as they now..want the new cash-cow [carbon/credits]
as once again..the market..is about to melt-down

we got a 'super'..because govt didnt want a wage blowout
so our wage increase..became the first supper contributions
sukked from our wages...

[the fact NOW..our super hasnt even got..the value of our own contributions..reveals the scam

but lets look at it further into the past
we were told govt..couldnt pay future/pensions..

thus we needed now..to do it ourselves..
but we missed out how govt[so fully in debt at the time]..was willing to pay a top-up

funny how ...*now it ..can pay for ..future-pensions...lol
but not pay them ...*in the future"..!

we get scammed
all the time

they test it on idiots
and if the monkeys swallow it
when the pr men go to work..AND..we get it..!

but its all scams

anything govt does ..costs us..*paying for all of it
be it free solar..or perscription drugs ..think about who pays..?

see the spin for what it is
advertising works
spin works

its time we stoped drinking the coolaid
stop paying govt ANYTHING
enough is enough

Yes Belly, perhaps you're right. It does not inspire confidence in rational OLO dialogue when one is told to move on and clean the streets.

Evasiveness their game, denialist their name.

Bonmot, it's a bit rich to regale us with your lack of "confidence in rational OLO dialogue" when a statement in your first post has neither factual knowledge nor rationality, and sadly for you it is the crux of your position.
"If you believe 'scientists' were fiddling the figures then perhaps you have been suckered."

Why did you say that? Even the perpetrators put their hands up, the world knows that the numbers were doctored to assure outcome. The whole Global Warming, oops, forgive me, they changed the name to Climate Change just after the numbers were found to be concocted thing is a farce.

In a nutshell for you bonmot, the environmental movement (predominantly concerned with polluters paying and fixing) was high jacked by the “money” in the 80’s. The same “money” that owns and directs that movement coincidentally own the polluters. The appeasement to the new found environmental awareness was to either spend billions in the R&D of new cumbersome technologies or go on as they have been, but to go on as they have been requires a scapegoat for the plebs of the movement.

So they changed the chant from clean up the polluters to tax the plebs for being the end users. The tax does of course have reparations for the polluters, but Carbon freebies and the strategy of passing any real costs directly to the consumer have the “money” patting themselves on the back. Not only have they alleviated themselves of on costs, they will profit through their brokerage houses and banks. It is not the air that stinks in my country it is the politicians, lobby groups, and their “need a cause” acolytes.

interesting debate on the abc big ideas today
called 'creating a change of climate for change'
put on by 'greening of the warf'

anyhow it was a 'debate',,for the converted*
the only real debate was who's sceme should get govt funds
and should we have..carbon trading...or a carbon tax'...lol

anyhow i noted a dived camp none the less
felt like spilling some money on the ground
and they would kill each other to get it....
[who will be getting the cash will divide their temporary truce]

however..some interesting stuff came up
like here is some obsure thearter..has put up 1900 solar cells
[no doudt with a nice govt subsidy]...well done nick grimmey

so govt subsidy of 1.9 million
with via..a 'gift' from the sun king...lol
who sold them to the greenie culture vulture's..[warfy grenies..arty fatty loud proud arts-crowd ..who have long sukkled on the public teat's]

anyhow another thing noted was 'the sun king'..said the cost of 1 kilowatt of salar works out at $1.90 per ...[possably over their EXPECTED life of 20 years..lol]

another interesting point was raised by the mirror hot salt guy
[at least he was talking about off peak power...ie bbaseload...for a mere mbn cost each year...[that would only put 7 cents on our base rate...[which sounds pretty fair to me]

as long as exports
get taxed for their methane polution..too

who would think a mere 7 cents extra
would cover base load

but who can blieve the decievers
lobbying for their share of the tax cake..[the govt cash rash]

..anyhow*..he said..a mere 7 cents
would raise 46 billion a year

how much are the buggggers making now...wow?

no wonder they can afford to pay..the warf/greenies 44 cents a kilowhat?..

plus free solar cells

the carbon tax will cost about that too..[i guess?]
and we still wont get base-loading [peak-time power..

so sack all the rest
for 7 cents..[over 10 years].. he sounds a winner
from then on it must be free...yippee

yeah swallow the delusion..
it will need to be rebuilt EVERY 20/30 years

except..power prices..SHALL NEVER*..COME DOWN

but somehow..i think they are all
just trying to sell..their own grand-sceme

so between trading carbon..for the rich/money men

or a simple tax..all must pay...
according to how much they use*
give me the tax...

and ONLY SPEND IT ...ON a method that gives baseload

all the rest still need coal*

its all a sham anyhow
those..with old solarcells..on their roofs*..own the silver
[note silver has trippled 3 times]

its now near its..all-time high..
as they giveaway..more solar-cells
to the artyfarty crowd's..[and the planned solar-farms
for big business..all subsidised by us muggs..via govt-gift]

soon silver
..*stolen from the people ..globally
when we went 'decimal..ie..cupra*NICKLE-coins

and the worlds feds stole the silver-coins
from OUR shillings..*made of sterling silver..

[a huge con that still bears its bad/fruits
in ever inflative fiat-currency]..that buys ever*less

unlike silver
now booming in blooming value..!
that..*we should own...not the bankers..
who sold it..to the rich-speculaters

anyhow the new govt cash-cow.. will divide their camp
but..it is still..*ALL based on lies..

carbon isnt the 0NLY greenhouse/gas..
its the only one they dare mention..[blame that..on the lawyers]

BUT its time to tax all the grenhouse/gasses

lets start with methane from mining coal
and from gas leaks..from the coal seam-gas...

tax it*..as its mined..or exported
or tax it..*by who uses [polutes]..most

the most...MUST..pay more!

give everyone a base-allowance ..of carbon/credit's
from then on ..the big* users/..&*abusers MUST pay

the more you use
the more you *MUST pay
or else..we are still being conned