suzeonline asks me: "Impressive indeed? "

No! Not at all! Charity is not uniquely Islamic, and it is not the first in Australia. All regions practice charity of certain kind.

I have fallen no trap of anything, please stop trying to tell me how to think and what to think. Just look at the fact.

He came to Australia when he was 3 years old. Are you suggesting a 3-year-old immigrant can bring his religious conviction to the country and make his contribution because of that?

I am going to make your job easier: how about invention? Why not search the Internet for "Australian Inventions"? Please don't list Kabab as one of the contributions, you can do better than that!

This is what I have leaned from this debate: stop speaking in the way you have been taught, rather, speaking what you have learned from reality. If you are not as knowledgable as you wished, go and learn what real life is. Just stop repeating other people taught you what to say.

By the way, please be clear that muslims are not a race but a group of peoples, ranging from white to black, and all the colours in between, who share a religious belief. You may make yourself less creditable in an argument if you fail to have a clear concept of what you are talking about.

HATE feast! Suzeonline I just bet you have asked GY to consider stopping this thread, maybe me.
I want to warn contributors , take care, read Barry Cohen's speech follow Bazzs link.
He speaks for middle Australia, from both sides of the spectrum.
And most Australians, clearly.
Run a poll here and the figures may not show it.
Run one in the street and you can slant it either way, by picking the street.
I see in Peng, my views and concerns,not extreme not racist honest.
Australians MUST never ceed ground to political correctness, a tool minority's impose on most of us, to prevent us being heard over the rat bag idea our views are xenophobic or racist.
I knew Barry he is a shining light a good and great average Aussie, rather his view than PC tripe any day.

Peng:

As I've written in the past, the art of reasoned, intelligent argument is a skill not easily acquired. Sound reasoning will conquer unreasonable generalisations every time. It's better to at least appear to be arguing from a mature intelligent level, rather than an emotional one. No one likes, or supports an abusive, and illogical debater as well as a dogmatic one - no one wants to appear pig-headed otherwise they may subsequently be ignored. It also helps to know the topic. With that thought in mind, the following website may be of
interest:

http://australiansall.com.au/archive/post/australia-s-dangerous-fantasy/

Peng do not change your thoughts Lexi is unhappy with my views but a great person.
I see honesty in your posts and you know as I do we have a problem.
PC is blinding many ,good wishes thoughts and dreams do not make for balance if the other side is not also dreaming.
Barry Cohen was my member years ago ,no fool just a great bloke, read his books great fun humorous fella.
He once had an employee waylay him, she called in the union to his clothing shop.
It was found she was owed a bit of money, Barry paid up, she refused to join the union, said why should I.
Barry put his hand in his pocket and joined the union!
No extremist no racist Barry spoke for most yes true, most Australians are concerned as are Europeans about increasing devisions, not race but religion.
I get it wrong, we all do, but noway I am backing down on my views to remain on good terms with any one.

Belly, thanks for reminding me.

I actually have heeded the advice given by Lexi, namely, searching the Internet for Muslim contribution to Australia. Guess what? I also found the Afkan camel drivers' story. But sorry Lexi, even I counted it as one of the contributions, I am afraid your intelligence wouldn't put up with the insult. The simple reason is that they were here as camel drivers, not as muslims. And muslims are not the only camel drivers. Their contribution is made as camel drivers, not as Afkan muslims.

OK, let's stop the game for a while, and just look at the history. The muslim nations used to be centers of learning, innovation, and preservation of knowledge with splendid architecture masterpieces to show their prowesses in mathematics, engineering, and more.The West owes its revival in knowledge, science and technology to those nations.

Unfortunately, while the West speared ahead with ever growing power in all aspects of human life, muslim nations stagnated. Today, the reality is that there is little they are able to offer to the developed Western nations.

Let me offer you a piece of advice in return: why not search the Internet for "Australian inventions". I bet you would be surprised to see how a tiny nation like Australia contributed so magnificently to the world.

It is better to be an Australian, indeed.

Belly:

I fully understand your point of view. I respect the rights of others to hold opinions different from my own. I enjoy a robust discussion and you are and always will remain one of my favourite posters, and someone I count as a friend.

Peng:

I'm surprised that you were not able to find the appropriate websites on Muslim contributions in Australia - because there are quite a few
listed on the web. However, find the time to go to your local library. It is now possible to explore the past by means of a large numbers of books, (Dr Said's, "Australian Muslims," is one that springs to mind). We can know a great deal about the history of this great country of ours and the contributions that various groups have made. But knowing brings burdens - with knowledge the question is no longer what we know but what we are to do, (as in the case of our First Australians) and that is a much harder matter to deal with. It will continue to perplex us for many years to come. As for Australian Inventions? Having worked for the CSIRO for many years - I am familiar with the topic.

I am looking forward to watching the other two episodes of this interesting TV series. Hopefully for you, the upcoming episodes will provide more information than what you feel the first episode did. I've stated in the past that a historian can establish that an act took place on a certain day, but this, by historical standards, constitutes only chronology. The moment the historian begins to look critically at motivation, curcumstances, context, or any other such considerations, the product becomes unacceptable for one or another camp of readers.