Let us Poirot and csteele look at this from my stand point not yours.
And that insult that I look not from Australia's point of view but Americas is humorous and rubbish.
I am from the realistic left, near center.
We the ALP majority know Australia is about as socialist as it ever will be.
We helped get welfare in all its forms.
Health care , education, transport, a host of socialist things many country's charge much more for.
We had but let both party's steal arbitration in workplace disputes, have far less true poor than America but too many.
This world is up for grabs.
This country too, the center may not hold power here soon once defeated Labor and those refugees from the greens will not return for generations to power.
Middle Australia is concerned at thoughts like yours and at Labors drift away from them.
Nothing is sure China will soon lead.
India is not far behind.
America is on the way down.
Saudi Arabia's both giving help and support to terrorism and claiming to be against it, lies are currency in that part of the world.
Both of you highlight American sins, sometime they are true, many times not.
Look at your Iran now, ruled by people anchored in the middle ages and confrontation, do you understand those people in charge of that country would not defend you? let you die maybe murder you?
Can any one ,at all, not see we are heading for a show down?
We are.
Drones?? war and history are full of worse boiling oil tipped on fighters whole towns and villages raped and killed.
Stuffing our guns with flowers,putting them down, will only hasten our deaths.
Real world please not a phantom nonexistent fight fair one.
I remain as I started amused but not budging America and its Friend are at least better.

Belly,

My point was that perhaps if the Americans (and British) had not trampled Iran's democracy underfoot, then we would not be dealing with the likes of the present regime.
The trouble with America's economically inspired adventures in the Middle-East is that one era's diabolically brilliant strategy always seems to morph into a debacle by the time we get around to the next one.

Dear Belly,

Geez mate, why is it so hard for either you or Yabby to answer a straight forward question? You two brothers or something?

I will try again, to your statement “I csteele without reserve support America using any weapon to fight these monsters.” would this include the type of gas attack employed Saddam Hussein?

Dear Yabby,

I have reread you replies to my question about the drone and mosque bombings and although I'm not 100% certain you seem to be concluding it is not the act that condemns but the actor. Therefore although both were done for strategic reasons, both killed around the same amount of people, both constituted an attack on civilians, yet there is only censure from you for the Taliban.

Therefore it seems entirely appropriate that I ask the same question of you that I did of Belly, would the use of a gas attack, similar to that employed by Saddam, by done by the CIA be acceptable in your eyes?

Csteele, the question that you are ignoring, is one of intent.

If you or anyone can show, that the CIA went and targeted civilians,
for no good reasons, then I and doubtless many others would like
to know about it.

I remind you that there are countless examples of where American
citizens have been charged, when it could be shown that they
behaved in that kind of manner. That includes warzones.

The intent of the Taliban is quite clear. People who do not accept
their brand of ideology are clearly infidels and not proper muslims,
so they are fair game.

Poirot, if the West Australian Govt claimed possession of your
house, with little or no compensation, you would most likely
squeal like a pig.

Yet if the American Govt retaliates, when third world Govts
nationalise the assets of its citizens, you seem surprised and
outraged.

What do you think the Govt should do, when billions of $ of American
assets are stolen? Lie on its back to have its belly tickled?

CSteele,
To win the war/peace in Afghanistan the US has to overcome two adversaries. the Taliban on the battlefield, and at home a motley coalition of Islamists, Communists and Narcissists. One group will lie, cheat and steal to achieve it’s ends, and if they ever came across you in a dark street would likely cut your throat, and the Taliban is just as bad.

No one is suggesting the US is perfect –there’re bound to errors /civilian deaths –particularly if the Taliban act like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3VmrOy6ZWQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsLOpFrlHAc
http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2010/06/26/taliban-comander.html
(I’ll bet if the “women” here were caught up in an attack they’d be added to your list of civilian deaths –and women civilians too!)


But despite all the Taliban’s as little setup’s, and all your attempts to manipulate accounts to fit your preferred story.
Neither you or the Taliban has produced any credible evidence that the US is deliberately targeting non-combatants in the Afghanistan conflict.