Oh and one more thing Rex. See if I went to a Lebanese Muslim resturant. I would expect to be served Halal meat and I would go there knowing that.

If I go to an Australian restaurant I would not expect to have to eat Halal meat just to make Muslims happy when it doesn't make me happy and it is to me a concern.

That Muslims dont have the same sense of tolerance and respect for our views and our beliefs is a worry.

Tolerance is going to be our undoing as it doesn't seem to go both ways.

I'm not having a go at you, Jolanda. I'm not saying that it shouldn't bother you, I'm saying that it doesn't bother me.

As for precedents, Australians, including the original Australians, have been manipulated, regulated and legislated against to suit various aspects of Christianity ever since white settlement, and this is still going on. Some may say that this is OK, because we allegedly have a "Christian Heritage", but I don't agree with this reasoning.

I've had jobs in Australia where, for no good reason [is there ever a good reason?] I've been forced to wear the traditional English male national dress, the suit and tie. Why? It doesn't suit our climate and it's often uncomfortable and inappropriate to what we're actually doing. It wastes power and is environmentally harmful when airconditioning is unnecessarily turned on or turned up, because the men are ridiculously overdressed. This is far more important to me than eating Halal food, but others are allowed to think differently if they wish, or indeed not think about it at all

I don't like the fact that Kraft Foods, the makers of Vegemite, is an associate company of Philip Morris Tobacco, so what do I do about it? I don't buy Kraft Foods products, that's what.

As an open minded, generally freedom-of-choice person, I don't want to be controlled to suit various restrictive aspects of the Muslim religion, or the Christian or any other religion either, for that matter. But I'm not going to make a fuss about something that really doesn't bother me, am I? And neither am I going to criticise you for seeing this particular aspect of the Muslim religion differently to how I see it.

And if I saw it as fitting my business interests to manufacture/sell/serve Halal food, then I'd make a business decision on that. Those prospective clients who saw things differently would be free to do what I choose to do about Kraft Foods, not patronise my business.

Rex you are not forced to wear a certain type of clothing in any job - you might be required to - but you are not forced. You could just leave your job if you didn't like it. But when Halal meat is everywhere and you are not given a choice then you either have to stop eating meat or go and live in another country.

It is a concern because we are being deprived of choice and Halal meat is a religious issue. So religious and important that Muslims will not eat any meat or products that haven't been processed in this way - no matter what. It's not just something minor it is a very significant issue in the Muslim religion and way. Maybe you dont see it now, but time always tells.

"Rex you are not forced to wear a certain type of clothing in any job - you might be required to - but you are not forced. You could just leave your job if you didn't like it. But when Halal meat is everywhere and you are not given a choice then you either have to stop eating meat or go and live in another country."

Agreed, Jolanda, but if you have trained and maybe also got specialised qualifications for a certain kind of employment, then you may feel that you really have no option than to comply with a ridiculous and potentially environmentally harmful dress code. And if you do voluntarily leave your job and can't immediately get other suitable employment, then you may find yourself unable to get Centrelink payments either.

What happens next? You can't pay your mortgage, or make your car payments. You lose your home and all your possessions. Your marriage falls apart and you're a broken man. But you stood by your principles, didn't you? I think that I'd sooner eat Halal meat than endure this scenario, but we're all different, aren't we?

Incidentally, I stopped wearing a suit and tie for work when I was WA Wheatbelt manager for an insurance company in the 1970s. The state manager tried to stand over me, but I ignored him and got away with it. But few men would even try this.

Back to topic. I'm probably going to go shopping this afternoon and will be buying meat. I don't think I'll have a problem getting non-Halal meat, but I'll let you know.

Well, I did my food shopping at both Woolworth's and at a fairly large independant supermarket. I checked out the meat sections at both and bought a number of meat items. I saw no reference to Halal in either store.

We do have Muslim people, who are recognisable by the ladies' headscarves, living and shopping in this area. I have no idea how they handle their food shopping requirements. I don't recall seeing any ladies in veils and/or bhurkas around here, but I've seen plenty of men in suits and ties on century heat days, which I regard as evidence of brainwash derived from a foreign culture. One time I saw a Muslim girl wearing a headscarf and tight jeans in our local shopping centre and I thought, "Good on you, for choosing the style of dress which suits the image you have of yourself". Incidentally, I've see this style of dress combination in Bali, too.

I've just enjoyed a pork cutlet for lunch. As someone who rationalised his views of Christianity [my upbringing] at 15, I've thought for a long time that I wouldn't have religion telling me what I could, or couldn't eat and drink. What's that got to do with loving your neighbour as yourself?

It's the local Christian fundamentalists who we need to keep an eye on around here. We've had a clothes optional beach for over 30 years, and it was formally legalised in 1989, with substantial public approval and relatively little opposition. Since then, it's never caused any social problems, but that hasn't stopped the fundies from periodically complaining about it and trying to have it closed down

Thats great Rex. I am so glad you enjoyed your experience.

I wonder what chances you will have to change things when you go out and things have already changed.

We have to deal with issues before they get out of control not wait until afterwards.