Spin:”You say “Faith comes under the heading of knowledge without information?” Not really, Faith does not require, nor does it have information, therefore it cannot have knowledge, i.e. it cannot produce a result of any description, thus we call it faith.”

Don’t you start with one basic knowledge... someone informed you there was a God then the knowledge bit is that you decided they were right? I think I decided faith was an emotion while typing that.

Umm... so knowledge is how one assimilates information or the conclusion of various information and then the decision to not let it bother us too much is “getting it”?

Spin:”The issue remains though, that if this is just Australia, what on earth would the figures for the rest of the world look like?”

If they are as busy as Aussie at broadening definitions they probably look just as bad. It’s one thing to decide evil spirits give us diseases but now we have gone stupid.

I was okay regretting the odd walk of shame on a Saturday morning but now I have been sexually assaulted? Which means I am a victim now which probably means I have some kind of post traumatic stress disorder I didn’t know about and someone out there will be wanting to talk to me and give me mind altering medication. Wonder if Centrelink is waiting with some kind of disability payment or victim compensation…

pelican,

*WE* *MUST* decide to fly above the turmoil of *WE* really want to fly above it. *WE* *MUST* ignore maturely not immaturely, a whole realm of so-called meaning. As long as our self-identification centers around what *WE* call the real world, no profound happiness is *POSSIBLE*. Happiness requires that *WE* give up a wordly orientation as I stated previously - not wordly things but a wordly attachment to things. *WE* have to surrender all outcomes. *WE* have to live here but appreciate the joke.

'Do whatever it is that makes you happy, if you know what it is'
I do. Winding you lot up.

'I was okay regretting the odd walk of shame on a Saturday morning but now I have been sexually assaulted? Which means I am a victim now which probably means I have some kind of post traumatic stress disorder I didn’t know about and someone out there will be wanting to talk to me and give me mind altering medication. Wonder if Centrelink is waiting with some kind of disability payment or victim compensation…'

That's gold Piper!

Hang on guys and gals, there is some really good stuff coming out on this thread, much of it from posters that, in their honesty, might get mashed by realism. Please let the debate run.

We all have a contribution to make regardless of our perspectives. When on form, this forum has much to offer in understanding the human condition. I am learning and I’m sure that if we just stop trying to be “smart” and closing down the debate, we will all learn something valuable.

Can I please refocus your intellect and knowledge on the essence of this thread? If, as stated by Professor Fiona Stanley we, as a species, are suffering dreadful emotional damage just by being part of our societies, what might be the “cause” of that damage?

All posters seem to agree that the damage is happening, which is self evident. So how might we apply the collective might and intellect of our OLO community to come up with answers rather than more questions?

TPP, << Don’t you start with one basic knowledge... someone informed you there was a God then the knowledge bit is that you decided they were right? I think I decided faith was an emotion while typing that>>

I’m having real difficulty with this response. Yes I fully agree, faith is an emotional response, then you say “Don’t you start with one basic knowledge”

Knowledge is nothing to do with belief or faith. Knowledge is an adjective, a doing word. If you cannot provide information on the topic, you cannot possibly have knowledge.

You then say, <<someone informed you there was a God>>. No, someone informed you that as a result of their “faith” they believed there was a God. You do not have the authority of information to support this and because there is no “information” there can never be knowledge, no adjective, no doing, no result, just faith.

Continued:

Continued:

You say, <<Umm... so knowledge is how one assimilates information or the conclusion of various information and then the decision to not let it bother us too much is “getting it”? >>

No, Intelligence is how one assimilates information, not knowledge, because very little information is needed for assimilation, there is no “decision” for those who “get it”, and therefore there is no inner conflict and no emotional damage.

TPP, I don’t wish to piss in your pocket (sorry GY), but you are the only one so far on OLO that seems to grasp the significance of the human condition.

Can I offer a further compliment? I think you are very close to “getting it”.

Now I’m going to seriously generate some (more) conflict. What if I were to suggest that the cause of human angst is our departure from reality? What if I were to suggest that our lives are dictated by fear, uncertainty and doubt? that out responses are the adoption of placebos such as dogma, paranoia, theology, ideology, fantasies (Aliens, pixies and fairies) conspiracy theories and obsessions? That each of these gives us temporary relief from the effects of the societies which we have created? But that each of these is in conflict with the instinctive reality that burns like a laser beam through our created comfort zones? That it is these inner conflicts that cause us to be “ill at ease” with self? And as a result we burn emotional effort and damage ourselves. Thank you Yuyutsu.

You know, Hasbeen, I think you're right.

One of the problems with our research-focused higher education system is that, in areas such as psychology, we are too eager to identify new 'conditions'. What was once 'naughtiness' is a condition - treatable with drugs - that prevents a child from following rules. What was once 'not listening' is a condition - treatable with drugs - that prevents a child from following instructions. What was once 'sookiness' in a condition - treatable with drugs - that prevents a child from interacting positively with others. This feeling of 'poor me, I can't help it: I have a condition!' carries through into adulthood.

Every day, I stand in front of drug-addled classes of children who have been told that their misbehaviour is not their fault, and that they don't have to take any active steps (other than taking their drugs) to control themselves. It's up to teachers, deputies, coordinators and school counsellors to nurture them rather than to enforce rules. In my last school, students with 'anger management issues' (read: erratic violent behaviour) were issued with time out passes so they could go to some sort of 'zen room' and calm down (it wasn't actually called a zen room, but with calming music, mini zen gardens and water features, let's call a spade a spade).

I won't deny that there ARE mental health problems out there, but I think many of the new conditions we are seeing and treating have always been there. Our approach to them has changed, though, building a society of 'victims' and people who can blame 'the system' or 'bad genes' for their own failure to fit in.

I believe we create chaos deliberately to distract us from acknowledging Nothing About Us Is Infinite.

I appreciate it Spindoc but really I’ve myself become hooked up on the definition given to “knowledge” compared with “Intelligence”. I get the feeling that although the word knowledge is used it is because of our limited language.

I asked a Minister once why they believed and the reply shocked me. “It makes life easier”. The last thing I was expecting was something so honest and simple. I have a nasty suspicion that all religions had to include a “no suicide” rule because if you fully believed you’d just be there already.

Spin:“Knowledge is nothing to do with belief or faith. Knowledge is an adjective. If you cannot provide information on the topic, you cannot possibly have knowledge.”

So knowledge is proof? Oh.. hang on is it the “reasoning” involved why you believe or conclude something?

Hey Otokonoko, kids suck for sure. It’s too late for some teens, you have to do the no physical consequence stuff from the beginning and raise nice young people who then go on to behave in schools. You can’t smack them at home and then throw them at teachers to control who can’t use the parents discipline techniques. They work out early you can't hurt them and other consequences they didn't get taught or have a maturity to understand. Concepts like education being a privilage and what it means to their future blah blah.

High five Houel. :P