Hello again Yuyutsu,

You said... "Those first three levels are necessary for survival, so are intricately involved with thought. Further up, the more intelligent love becomes, the less thought is required.

4. Innocent, heart-felt compassion
5. Creative love
6. Knowing love

This last one is associated with wisdom, and finally:

7. God's love, transcendental and surpassing all thoughts and feelings."

Returning again to Genesis 2:17 and the question about what had died in Adam and Eve, I said, using reasoned thought, biblical reference, and matters of circumstance that what died was innocence. But you clearly disagree with this because you seem to think, without reasoned thought, biblical reference, nor using matters of circumstance, that innocence still exists in the adult and can be called upon for this compassionate love you speak of.

Care to explain what this adult innocence is that you speak of?
And whilst you are about it could you please explain what creative love is?

Dear George,

Did it ever occur to you to help an old lady or a lost kitten without hoping for a reward, or sexual benefit, or power and control? Nor even a ticket to heaven? Did your heart ever twitch on seeing the pain of another? or did your heart ever rejoice in their rejoicing? That's innocent love!

One level is to feel that twitch in your heart, but still be helpless about it (or as is often the case, complicate things even further by ignorantly trying to fix the situation without the necessary skill-in-action), while the next level is to actually be able to do something creative and intelligent about it. There is very little thought on that level, you just go ahead and do what is needed, you are serving as a channel, allowing God to do His work through you.

On matters anthropocentric, only humans can think, so claiming that "to think is the meaning of life for all" attributes meaning to human life, but denies it from all other forms of life. I was referring of course to the phenomena of thinking, not to its contents (thoughts: we eat apples, we think thoughts). As I explained, I do not attribute a meaning to life anyway.

On matters biblical, I do not consider the bible an authority, but since you asked, one Jewish interpretation for the double-use of the word 'death' is to inform Adam that he would still die even despite having eaten from the tree of life. Indeed, Abraham's god is anthropocentric, but at least he is not made of clay, or stone or silver or gold like the other gods of its time, so at least you must acknowledge that this was a step forward.

you don't get it because you do not appreciate what you have but you only think about what you don't have. it is a natural human behavior, we always want more. how about starting to appreciate every breath you take. that you are still alive, that your love ones are still alive.

no.. you do not get it, you complain, i complain about you complaining:P

there is so much to life.

all the debating and arguments. most of them are beneficial just from observing how we interact with each other.

fact is, we are not grateful enough. say a prayer, and thank god for what you have. count your blessings, everyone has many, you just don't realize it.. until you loose it.

this is why you are searching, because u lost it.

Hello again Yuyutsu,

On the matter of innocent love being akin with helping without reward, I disagree. Almost anyone who helps another in need is rewarded. It feels good to be good. Good self feelings then are the reward of good deeds. So there is nothing innocent going on there. Better to call it 'Good Love.'

On the matter empathy as expressed in the sharing of rejoicing feelings with another, or the turmoil of seeing another in pain, that too is not 'Innocent Love.' It has a name and I have used it already: Empathy, which is the ability to see things from another's perspective given their circumstances.

On the matter of there being very little thinking going into the intelligent and creative solutions to another's problems, again I disagree. What is it that decides this course of action from another? Thinking. What is it that decides the emotion and forcefulness of a response? Thinking. What is it that plays with ideas? Thinking. What is it that tells us to act immediately? Thinking. Do I need to go on?

On matters anthropocentric, I struggle to understand why you are pushing this point when God Himself is anthropocentric! Genesis 1:26. Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”

Dear George,

I am sad to hear that you cannot recall such an experience where you loved without expectations. Obviously results follow, obviously you will feel good as a result, but the question is whether or not you calculate your moves in advance in order to achieve that good felling, or ... you simply love: if you pre-meditate, if you expect anything in advance, including to feel good - then you lost your innocence and that love of yours would be downgraded to a romantic level 3.

Similarly, I am sad to hear that you cannot recall a time when you allowed yourself to serve as a channel of God without over-interfering in His work with your own mind's thinking. God's intelligence is infinitely superior than ours.

Regarding Genesis 1, the original expression, before softened by translation, is "and they shall tyrannise the fish of the sea and the birds of the sky...". As I mentioned earlier, I do not consider the bible an authority: the fact that the bible depicts God as anthropocentric does not imply that God actually is anthropocentic.

To love without expectation? No, I have never done that. Even the parenting that I did out of love came with expectations. Given that they were both intelligent and healthy, I expected them to become individuals capable of making their own decisions with a strong awareness of consequences and a strong, well thought, moral sphere to guide them. More than that, I expect them to be respectful, successful according to their own definitions of success, and maintain their welcomed and friendly contact with my good self.

As to opening myself up to God? Who is this God you speak of? How does this God relate to we humans or to be more in tune with your considerations: How does this God relate to we animals of earth, personally and in general?

If the Bible is not an authority on God, what is?
One final question: Do you believe that we are made in God's image?