My post above was in reply to suzeonline's comments in her last post.

Dear Yabby,

Just picked up on your comment about the drought in W.A.
I'm in W.A. also, and have found this the most extraordinary winter in my memory - almost day after day of sunshine. I kept waiting for the weather to break, but the clear skies just kept coming. I'm not in the country - although live in a small city in the south-west, and I've been mindful of the effect the lack of rain is having or going to have on the farmers.

Well fair enough Yabby. You may not resent women but your comments mask that at times. There is some hypocrisy on OLO about criticism of gender and it seems open season on women at times. There is some quite personal criticism of women on OLO and some of it quite malicious. If a subject is worth raising and debating (not this thread opener) it should be quite easy to debate it on its merits.

It is also tragic that issues like DV are demeaned because it is taken as a slight on all men just because some men beat their wives. There are rotten eggs among men and women, it does not mean that by raising issues like child abuse or DV etc that we should all be muffled by politically correct waffle that detract from the very important issues of violence whether perpetrated by men or women. (using that as an example while being off-topic).

Houlley
If there is genuine disparity and it is rife there is no reason why it should not be debated but using this one example is not proof that men are earning less overall. That was my main point and as such does not prove anything as far as accusations of hypocrisy. As I said absolute equality won't exist and there will always be sectors where men/women will earn more or be more represented.

Always happy to discuss the subject rationally but when rationality leaves the thread logical debate goes out the window.

Pelican:"using this one example is not proof that men are earning less overall"

And not one person has claimed that it is. It is certainly proof that among young men and women in the majority of US cities, young women are paid more. That means it is like the canary in the coal mine, a warning of problems ahead.

What amazes and saddens me is that normally rational people like you are so locked into a "woman as victm"mindset that logical discussion of that is impossible for you.

Far from the problem being Yabby or me "hating women", the problem here is that some women are desperately scared of having to face reality, including the reality that they are much better off than the propaganda they prefer.

I suspect that a great deal of that comes down to the longstanding "damsel in distress" meme. You know that if you look helpless enough someone will go out of their way to help you. It won't wash.

Suze,here's a tip, repeating a piece of data that has been discredited doesn't make you look clever, it makes you look stupidly incompetent.

I note that none of the grrrls have actually tried to take on my argument on logical grounds. How unsurprising...

Foxy:"A fundamentalist preacher will tend to
view pornography in one way; the owner of a
strip-club in another way. "

The difference is in the power of the pussy. The preacher wants it, but the stripper knows she's got it,at least until she starts to get a bit saggy.

Reality's a bitch, isn'tit?

pelican,

I don't think the wider argument that more women are going to university than men can be refuted. I maintain that if it was more men than women going to uni, there would be nodding of heads that we must do something about this 'inequality'.

Like you I don't think this article proves anything, and I think that if men choose not to go to university it's their choice. What bugs me, is that is never the opinion of feminist commentators and if women were not choosing to go to university, it would be considered that it's all because of those dreaded 'societal expectations', and an example of the evil patriarchy and misogynist society. These same commentators normally get a knowing nod of approval from all the female posters.

If it's because of inequality that less women go to university, then it is so for men. And if feminism was about equality, they would be just as upset that so many more women than men these days are going to university. Personally I don't think either is cause for alarm when people have the choice.(Maybe that's the difference, men have choice, women have societal expectations?)

Like in my example about sleep, every study has to be genderised, and a simple thing like sleep becomes 'the next feminist issue'. Everywhere you turn there is a new tale of woe that is sold as uniquely female.

Just like Domestic Violence. This isn't a female only issue, but it is sold as that. You get stats quoted like '23% of young people were aware of domestic violence against their mothers or step-mothers by their fathers or step-fathers'

Where in fact 'This study found that while 23% of young people were aware of domestic violence against their mothers or step-mothers by their fathers or step-fathers, an almost identical proportion (22%) of young people were aware of domestic violence against their fathers or step-fathers by their mothers or step-mothers.'

'it does not mean that by raising issues like child abuse or DV etc that we should all be muffled by politically correct waffle'

Indeed!