pelican,

'As I said absolute equality won't exist and there will always be sectors where men/women will earn more or be more represented. '

Agreed. But the problem is every time women are under-represented, in ANYTHING, it's a feminist issue, and a human rights issue, and evidence of the evil patriarchy victimising the downtrodden martyrs of society. If women are under-represented in any aspect of life, in any stat, it must be fixed. Even if women have shown the don't want to do that, they must be encouraged to overcome these all pervasive 'societal expectations'. Those expectations that never seem to fall on men, and that women have somehow no responsibility in forming.

The language is all around us...

Women are being 'kept out' of science and engineering (Boys club, societal expectations, not encouraged enough), but men are 'choosing' not to do nursing and teaching.

Women are under-represented in the boardrooms (discrimination!), but men are 'choosing' to be under-represented as primary carers.

Women are 'forced' to do the 'lions share' of the housework, while men choose to 'tinker around in the shed' and LOVE DIY.

Dear Yabby,

There have been many months when my husband
wasn't able to bring in a pay cheque at all
due to the fact that he's self-employed and
there was no work for him. Mine was the only
pay cheque that kept us afloat. I imagine that's
a norm for many people - as you said - you make
the best of things together. That's life.

Dear Antiseptic,

You've proven my point about viewing things from
different perspectives.

There is nothing more
unpleasant for me than to see anyone stripped of
their power as human beings. We all have the power
to diminish and we've all seen it happen to people.
As far as male/female relationships go - if people
continue to jab at what they view as the other's
weaknesses, they need to ask themselves, is this
what you want to end up with? The man/woman who just
says, "Yes, dear," and falls asleep in the armchair
every night? To those people I'd say, Be careful what
you wish for, because you might end up stripping away
the vitality, the sexual energy of the person you once
thought as your "knight in shining armor" or "Goddess."

The key to all of this is that one person may do all they
can to keep their relationship as healthy as it can be, but
it's not enough. No matter how healthy you become, your
partner has to be working alongside you. If they're not,
then it's like one hand clapping. It has to meet the
other hand to make the sound of applause.

Anyway, much as I've enjoyed our robust discussion,
for me it's now run its course.
I'll see you on another thread.

Got a new feminist issue now...

Birth rape

http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/lifematters/blogs/dirty-laundry/birth-rights/20100905-14vz8.html

Doctors with poor bedside manner trying their best to get a baby out are now rapists it seems

Hoellebecq:"birth rape."

Hahaha. and they wonder why we take the piss...

Foxy, the difference in perspective is only a factor if it leads to inaccurate information being processed. The fact is that you have not even tried to address my point in realtion to education or in relation to the statistical problems caused by using simple mean figures, or of the "invisible" wealth transfer between the genders,preferring to try to pretend it's all just a product of my "perspective".

Of course, the reason for that is that for you, your "perspective" means more than facts, even if you were equiipped to understand them. The same applies to the other members of the "grrl gang" here on OLO. For me,my "perspective" means only that I am not constrained to look at data in just one approved way, but may examine things from different angles.

With all due humility, I reckon I do a pretty good job of it and my observations have bneen consistently borne out when more comprehensive investigations have been conductred. For example, I first mentioned the education gap here on OLO about 12 months or so ago and was attacked for doing so, as expected.

Wouldn't it be wonderful if we could have a discussion, even disagreement, without the constant denial of reality and perpetuation of misinformation that is such a feature of the "feminist" position?

Who knows, it might even mean that "feminism" becomes a field of study worth the name...

Nah, better to just rely on advocacy "research", just in case we find things out that don't suit the agenda, eh?

Dear Antiseptic,

Again, you've proven my point about perspective.
Thank You. You only see things through
a very narrow lens, you don't respect
women - your behaviour is rude and
dismissive, and than you blame me for
not wanting to discuss things with you.

I'm a librarian by profession, and
part of our job entails providing information,
answering readers questions, teaching them to
use electronic and print resources to research
effectively. In this thread I tried to refer you
to various websites, so that you would obtain
the accurate information. You were not interested.
As usual, all you're interested in is in your
own perspective - and anyone who happens to agreee
with it.

Then you blame me for not discussing things
with you. The fact remains - you're not interested
in having a discussion. I'd be happy to have one, were
you to ever say something new. You can continue to
blame gender on everything, but to me,
and and the people I know, - gender has never been
a restriction - The "feminist" revolution was
before my time, and I was brought up with the fact
that - all possible options are open
and equally acceptable for both sexes.
To me, as I've said in the past - it's a person's
individual human qualities, rather than his or her
biological sex that's the primary measure of that
person's worth and acievement.

But enough said - I don't expect you to understand
any of this - you go on doing what you've been
doing to date - and you'll keep on getting what
you've got. That's life!