I think the key point here is freedom to choose - most people can gamble and drink in moderation but yes there it is definitely a problem for some people. It is very difficult to turn back from legalisation once it has become part of the norm and it is very difficult to part an Aussie from his beer. :)

It is wrong to say Islam does not achieve this alcohol free stance without coercion in some Islamic States. Like many States (not only Islamic) often there is less adherence among the privileged.

So it comes down to weighing up the harm effect. Is there more harm in the coercive arrangement than not.

Unfortunately those that would voluntarily give up alcohol and gambling are not the problem, it is those that could not that would remain.

Yeah, Cornflower - I second that Lol

C.J.

Our Catholic friend often refers to his penchant for alcohol imbibed from a "Catholic-sized glass"....meaning a big one - as opposed to the much diminished Protestant version.

*So, for example, if instead of spending money and time on alcohol and gambling people, people could enhance their knowledge, take time off and spend for the kids, help others and lead much healthier lives.*

I guess the same point can be made for religion. Think of the
enormous time and money wasted on religion! If people used all
that time and money more doing more constructive things, the
world would be a better place.

Alcohol is incredibly harmful to society as a whole. MUCH,MUCH more so than heroin, dope, speed, cocaine and all the illegal recreational drugs combined. It's every bit as much a drug as any other drug.

Banning alcohol is a useless exercise in futility (because of it's history and acceptance). The BEST way to get rid of it is to STIGMATISE it....... similar to the way we've successfully stigmatised tobacco use. In 50 years there will be hardly any cigarette smokers left in Australia. We can achieve similar results with alcohol.

Alcohol and gambling are harmful, but they have one benefit which outweighs their harm: the opportunity to be wise and choose to stay away from them.

Any legislation to the contrary, would hit in the face all good people who abstain from alcohol/gambling. Suddenly, even though nothing would seem to change outwardly, instead of continuing to express their integrity by their actions and let it shine, they would be reduced to a law-abiding mob that only acts in fear of legal retribution. Is this how society wants to reward goodness, caring, effort, wisdom and integrity? or do the legistlators seek to steal our sense of achievement and self-esteem?

Stop being precious, grateful.

>>And Pericles and Cornflower... If i have a view about what is good for our society, i'm entitled to it even if it makes you feel a bit uncomfortabnle. I would have prefered you addressed the post with reason rather abuse and inuendo<<

Of course you are entitled to express your view.

Only you tried to couch it in terms that are, as I stated, manipulative. That is neither abuse nor innuendo. It is a straightforward assessment of the manner in which you tried to make your "question" lead to a specific "answer".

You gave yourself away, by protesting...

>>Clearly it would be wrong to say, as you did, that coercion would be necessary, because Muslims prove this wrong (perhaps also Budhists). So it is a real alternative<<

There is no coercion in religion?

That has to be the most naive statement ever made about religious belief.

Organized religion, of every shape, form and manifestation, is nothing more nor less than coercion of people into a particular set of beliefs and behaviours. Whether it has to do with contraception, abortion, drinking, gambling, eating fish on Fridays, whatever.

So please, simply accept that you are unable to pull the wool over our eyes, and back off gracefully.