Last night I channel switched and based on what I saw This election has/will deliver the worst possible outcome. I watched, except from SBS, was an unedifying display of constant Liberal partisan denial/ arrogance . Particularly that female Liberal senator from NSW on ABC. Tony Abbott's premature' all but victory speech'. Are we about to get John HOWARD by not so remote control. A mandate?

“The people have spoken” ..true but denial of the clear undercurrent of the message being sent by the electors. “a pox on both your houses”.

*So much for the inanity of blank or informal vote or the protest vote. One wonders in a few months how many of those 'protest voters ' will wish they hadn't been a bit more cerebral with their vote.

*You have un straight jacketed the 'Mad Monk' instead of Tony Abbott the Prime Minister.

*You have rewarded the fear based campaigns of BOTH parties particularly the Libs solely negative .

*You have created 3 years of unpopular/unstable government!

**Clearly in the name of Democracy the first govt forming opportunity should go to the Libs.**

Finally my Switz army knife grinding is to restate that in Party driven Politics the win is everything not necessarily common sense, good government or the will of the people.
Consequently we have Visceral manipulation by both parties and over crowding of the lowest Common Denominator.

The result is yet another blow against sensible government.

I think it is a good result.This could be the beginning of the end of Labor and make way for a another polical force that actually represents the people instead of large corporate interests.

Let Labor tear themselves apart in their corruption and depravity.They have sold their principles for money and power.

Arjay:>> This could be the beginning of the end of Labor.and make way for a another polical force that actually represents the people instead of large corporate interests.<<

Arjay, historically we have been a 50/50 electorate with a couple of seats being the difference. The impetus that Labor received in 2007 because of work choices has now gone back from whence it came, delivering us the traditional 50/50 split again. Labor is not "failing" they are status quoing.

Re the big business aspect, the days of a party for the workers and party for the bosses has gone. It began with the corporate greed of the eighties, the era that the current lot of Labor power brokers grew up in. The Labor party of Ben Chifley is dead and the polarization of the Labor and Liberals has diminished, both houses are now headed up by Lawyers and barristers.

examinator: The result is yet another blow against sensible government.<<

E, what do call it when an adjective and a noun are diametrically opposed, well it escapes me at the moment but "sensible government" is that dichotomy.

This is the best election-result under the circumstances.
Now the big parties will be forced to do what they hate most - consult with and listen to the people!

Either there will be a joint government (Labor+Liberals), where the parties will agree to consult the people of Australia by referenda on the main issues, or at least the voice of the people will be heard to a certain degree through the independents.

Congratulations, Australia.

Sonofgloin,
Are you hinting at an oxymoron?
In which case I have to disagree, I'm not ready to dispense with the great common underbelly of Australians yet, let's call the term an aspirational one.

Yuyutsu
I find your naivety refreshing but there won't be any real conversation or real change in Coalition policy.(given democratic principles they should form a minority govt.

Last night Abbott unleashed, made it clear he believe he has a mandate to trash the sound polices of the Labor as well as the nonsense ones. The independents won't get much real say. I doubt they will as a block Lib key promises and force a re election. They will compromise for benefits to their electorates...their job. No, it won't be a horse trading exercise for trough wallowing rights, but they will support the Libs in to govern...budget and key policies under the guise of "stable govt".

What I'd like to see are the negotiations done under public scrutiny (fat chance).

I'm afraid this side of a miracle Labor doesn't by democratic standards have a mandate to govern.

I do believe that independents will have a greater chance of influencing policy with the Labor than the Libs.
These Independents *if they do their job properly* will be under obscene pressure should be applauded. However, I have my doubts particularly Bob Catter Jr. I hope to be surprised.

Almost certainly it will be Labor who will form a minority government. All the independents (even Bob Katter) are quite anti Liberal party in many of their current views ...... that's why they left the conservative side and have been successful independents for so long. Labor will court them successfully and form a government.

The election was definitely NOT an endorsement for the Liberals. They managed only about a 1.5% increase in their primary vote. Those anti Labor votes did NOT go to the Liberals, they went to the Greens And in doing so they "almost" gave the election victory to the Liberals.

I think labor will govern for about a year or more, then due to Senate blockage will go back to the electorate for another election, probably late next year. Then they'll be re-elected with an increased vote that will enable them to govern as a majority government. By the end of next year our economy will be in the initial stages of another boom, and this will greatly favour labor.

about 8 hours ago I gave government to the Liberals.
I got that wrong too.
One of the ex Nats has worked with Labor before, the other two will not work with their former party's leader.
Green works only with Labor and if elected the Tasmanian is unlikely to work with Abbott.
A west Aussie Nat say he will Be independent so we will see some trading done.
And my mob? can not hurt to know improvement is required.
Interesting times ahead maybe we all will gain from this.

Belly,

While anything is possible, all 3 of the independents come from conservative electorates. In none of them did the ALP and the greens combined get more than 18%, or more than the nationals which came second.

Supporting a Labor / Green coalition would be difficult to justify, especially in the next election. So while the game is on, the die are loaded.

Good riddance to bad government.

Bob Brown has horned his way in to second guess the Greens' newly elected lower house MP, Adam Bandt, who had already declared he wanted to work with Labor. So much for the Greens' respect for individual preferences and democracy in their own ranks.

However it would be preferable if the Greens signed up with the LNP because there is no way the Liberals would accept the one-upmanship, deceit and stirring that the Greens are capable of. The ruthlessness of the Liberals accepts such unreasonableness in opposition, seeing any disruption to government as a good thing, but when they are the target it is a different thing.

And my mob? can not hurt to know improvement is required.
Correct Belly but is it possible ?

examinator I'd been thinking about a post you made regarding your local member http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=3817#93595

If you live in the same electorate as me it appears that the local candidate has turned things around just a bit

http://www.abc.net.au/elections/federal/2010/guide/bowm.htm

for the previous election
http://www.abc.net.au/elections/federal/2007/guide/bowm.htm

R0bert

It is a great mess. I said earlier that it could work out well if these independents can work a good deal and the majors don't play games but i think it was too early in the morning for rational thought. If the liberals form government they will be blocked in the senate at every turn, if labor forms government then they will have to sell their soul to the greens meaning the ETS is back on and the price will be high. Problem is i don't see the independents agreeing to the ETS and they will probably want the mining tax to go, this will not please the greens. Either way one would think we will be back to the polls sooner rather than later.

Nairbe, and at that election Labor will gain majority government without doubt. All the Labor voters who voted Green this time will realise that if they do so again they may deliver a Liberal government. What an horrific disaster a Liberal Govt. would be ..... imagine it an amateur who doesn't even understand the internet as PM, Old Bronnie Bishop as Deputy PM (imagine her becoming PM in an emergency ...(SHOCK HORROR), a cabinet with the drama queen Pyne, and the immature, incompetent Hockey........... a DISASTER for Australia's welfare!

Remember, taking into account the two major parties .......a MAJORITY of voters have voted for Labor at this election. Therefore, the country has spoken!

Congrats to the mental pygmies of Queensland.
First of all your farmers grow the thirstiest crop,rice, in the one of the driest continents and now you elect a 20 year old BOY to a political seat in parliament.Please secede at once !
This was a very sad little election with one leader a spineless wimp with no real vision or LEADERSHIP qualities and another........oh im sorry what was the difference again ?
Maybe the difference is one wants 2 tin cans and string for broadband internet and doesnt believe in man made global warming and the other is to spineless to implement major policies that it was elected on and cant manage the small ones it does.
These 2 parties as thay are now, will go down in history as the worst ever with two leaders that have proven that just because some one is well educated it doesnt mean they are intelligent

I hope this is the end of small target politics. The campaign never got going, because neither party really stood up for anything. No-one really won the election, because there was nothing to seperate the parties.

Hay big dumo, we'd be only too pleased to secede, & I expect WA would be happy to join us. We'd avoid any rip off extra tax, designed to prop up our useless rust belt states.

You would be lucky to be able to manage 2 tin cans & a string for your phones, let alone broadband, without the 2 mining states earning the foreign exchange to pay for them for you.

The fact is, if the red neck hicks, living above the tropic of Capricorn stopped paying your way for you, the lot of you would sink out of sight so quickly the world would wonder if you had ever been here, or were actually another myth, like Atlantis.

Well hasbeen
Its about time Queensland has started paying its way after bludging of Victoria and NSW for decades.Check your economic history.
If the ripoff tax you are talking about is the mining tax then i rest my case on the queensland simpleton factor.The only people who were getting rippped off are the people of Australia before this tax was introduced.You could be an excellent politician given you think its smart to sell of our resources off for a song.I especially liked the comment, big dummo, that really showed me that you Queenslanders are really clever after all.
P.S Thanks also for Mr Barnaby ( billions million thousands ) Joyce too.

Read please with an open mind if I get it wrong verbally flog me.
Compare my view ,the happy day talking to even protecting conservative Booth people.
I have time and again said we are better for the way we treat one another.
Now truly look at hasbeen, big domo?
Bitterness, spite, and more can Be seen in SOME conservative posts.
Gillard from start to finish was preffered PM,by streets.
Two party preferred clearly was ALP, that continues to be the way every election seat is won.
Greens get rude remarks but they CONTROL the upper house, it is fact do we devalue the wishes of their voters.
Hung Parliament is an opportunity, no other way exists, working together we can see policy's that aren't just party ones.
But I See no chance Hasbeens like can except the voters will no chance good manners and understanding will come from his side.

What an excellent result!

The libs and labs have scored practically identical votes, which is pertinent given that they are, erm… practically identical!

The Greens have scored a huge swing, which is wonderful. Despite flawed policies, they are vastly better than the liblabs.

Rather than the government being hamstrung to get anything done, all decisions will be properly approved, or at least much more properly than if the winning party had the majority….and things will get done, in the right way.

<< The result is yet another blow against sensible government. >>

No I don’t think so Xammy.

.
<< This could be the beginning of the end of Labor and make way for a another polical force that actually represents the people instead of large corporate interests. >>

Here’s hoping Arjay.

.
<< This is the best election-result under the circumstances. Now the big parties will be forced to do what they hate most - consult with and listen to the people! >>

Well, I certainly hope so Yuyutsu.

.
Hopefully at long last we can see a move away from government that is utterly beholden to big business and the continuous growth ethic. In fact with a bit of luck, we now have the right sort of government setup to steer us towards a sustainable future, right at the point in our history where we desperately need it.

I have to agree Belly, nothing to do but try to be positive and look for some kind of outcome that can work or they are going to put us through this election thing again far too soon.
I live in a rural area and after listening to the independents it is possible that we may actually see some help sent our way for a change. I know the Nat's are counting O'connor as theirs but that is rather silly by them if you understand the scene in WA. The nationals over their have done a fantastic job for the country and this is a chance for the balance to do the same for the rest of the country. Broadband, rural health, roads, bridges and rail infrastructure are just the start. I am sure that sydney does not need another failed attempt at the north west link nor does brisbane need a rail link to Redcliffe that the State just won't build. Rural Australia let's hope it could be our turn.

good manners and understanding.
Belly,
I can only agree with your post & if the excerpt (above) from it could also translate to the heavily ALP lopsided Public Service then we can all feel better again.

Gotta love your optimism, Ludwig.

Puts Pollyanna in the shade.

>>Rather than the government being hamstrung to get anything done, all decisions will be properly approved, or at least much more properly than if the winning party had the majority….and things will get done, in the right way<<

Ya think, DiNozzo?

Who will be doing the "approving"? And what political price will they exact along the way?

And I'm afraid that my idea of things being done "the right way" does not extend to exchanging the floor of the chamber for closed-door back-room horse-trading, as the place where decisions on Australia's future are discussed and debated.

belly I might be misunderstanding you but you appear to be attacking the conservative side of politics for bad manners and spite. Did you read what big damo65 actually said in his or post?

R0bert

Thanks for the support RObert, but I don't need much to deal with dumo.

About time Queensland started paying it's way, what a pile of BS.

Do you remember protectionism? That's when import duties pushed up the price of everything we made, or could try to make, by 50% or more. That policy was designed to prop up the blue collar jobs of Victoria, & NSW with the money of all the other states.

WE even had import quotas, so no matter how inefficient & expensive southern industry was, other states had to buy the stuff, & pay through the nose.

The cost added to the means of production, [like tractors] meant much of the other states products were only marginally profitable, but they paid far too much for their cars, to keep you lot eating.

Handing back a few bucks of tax to other states was only a sop to the conscience of southern politicians. As a bloke involved in manufacturing, in Sydney, in the 60s, I was always surprised that the other states stood for the ripoff.

Ludwig,last week I had lunch with a lawyer who has beginning new political party to reform Govt and fight corruption.He has had life threats.He said,consider how possibly corrupt our Govts are and then multiply it by 3 to get the reality.According to him,very few decisions are made with some palm greasing.The state Labor Govts in my view are the worst.The schools building scams had to be corruption.

I don't think the Liberals are much better.Remember Bob Askin? This is a cultural thing that has been with us for decades but now our Govts have bcome totally dysfunctional.

Amendment to my original Post.
In the light that the Two party Preferred is leaning Labor's way and if it stays that way then THEY are morally the the party to form government or go back to the polls.

IMO Based on further unleashed utterances by The MM (late TA potential PM) and the above, he leading the coalition in govt is not in the country's best interests

I wish you would realise that to join a politicial party - any of them, you have to sign a promise that you will agree with the decisions of the majority. This means that you have no integrity, and not much intelligence, so that's what you get in parliament. What is needed apart from a no party government, is one that the members promise integrity and democracy, as this has been missing for a long time. I think the old adage applies, united we stand, divided we fall. and there is nothing like various parties and various religions to destroy a community.

Given that the moral right to rule is dependent on which side you naturally fall (ie primary vote vs 2pp). However, who dons the mantle of PM is more likely to be decided by the independents.

The independents have all stated that they will favour stable government, and that is largely decided by who gets Hasluck.

If Hasluck falls to the Libs, given their conservative electorates, and the country's distrust of the greens, the 3 independents would find it difficult to justify their support of Labor.

However, if Labor gets Hasluck, the 3 independents would not be sufficient in their own right, and their negotiating power would lie only with Labor, or a double dissolution.

With the Libs ahead by 0.6%, they have an advantage, but with about 25% uncounted, it could go any way.

Dear Examinator,

I also switched from one channel to another
on Saturday night watching the Election results
and the commentary. I saw the thuggery that
went on with Kroger's attack on Wayne Swan
(inexcusable), and Barnaby Joyce's attempt to
demean Tony Windsor (embarrasing).

Over all, it merely illustrated how far some people
are prepared to go for Party allegiances.

The Election result is not yet known, but the message
the country has given appears to be loud and clear.
Neither Party has performed well, and people are
dissatisfied.

This may just be a step in the right direction.
Whoever manages to be able to form Government,
they will now be held accountable by independents
with no party allegiances, and surely that can't
be a bad thing for us all. Perhaps therein lies
the future of Government in Australia - where
people matter more than any given Party.
Local issues should determine the future of the
nation and should be resolved by the Government in
Parliament.

Arjay, historically we have been a 50/50 electorate with a couple of seats being the difference. The impetus that Labor received in 2007 because of work choices has now gone back from whence it came, http://www.eluxury-sale.org/ delivering us the traditional 50/50 split again. Labor is not "failing" they are status quoing.

Belly.
Thanks for the tip about the political leanings of hasbeen.
Knowing he is a conservative makes it easier to understand the personal attacks by a dimwit.
As was limited to 350 words i couldnt fully explain what i meant before either.
The Liberal party are the worst of a bad pair.
The Liberals suffer from being a bunch of mean spirited BOYS who lied about real benefits of the stimulus package,couldnt put their costings up for scrutiny,dont understand technology and have no real economic understanding or vision.
Labor have some great ideas eg Stimulus package,national broadband,mining tax,computers in schools,apology to the aboriginals and yes even the pink batts rollout.There were some of them that suffered from very poor implementation.
Their backflip on a REAL emmissions trading scheme was also appalling.
Another problem is that neither Abbott or Gillard have shown they are real LEADERS
They are certainly not of the caliber of hawke,howard or keating who were ,love em or loath em, true leaders.
And yes there are some great advantages with the hung parliament as it stands now.

Stuff the politics.

Gone are the days when we had polys that actually cared about Australia.

Thankfully we had some in the past. Those that drafted our constitution are the only thing that have saved us from the lying, coniving lot we have today.

I am too cynical to get involved, but on performance and compedence Labor should not have got a vote.

On election night I had a great time, I watched the football and the Swans had a great win.

I feel for the young who will have to put up with this for many years to come, and pay the debt.

I did not realise until this election how wise the founding fathers of the constitution were. They have left us a very short document that is able to grow and evolve as society changes. It does not mention the Prime Minister but if it did, it would not be the leader of a party. It would be the leader of elected members that have the majority on the floor of the lower house. It does not mention parties either. Just goes to prove how far sighted they were. It is the members elected by the people who count not the leader or party. They have set the bar very high to bring about any change to the constitution.

First past the post voting is not fair. Maybe we should look at Tasmania. Some kind of regional preferential might be a goer. Divide the country up into regions with multi members, not unlike the Senate. Winner take all as it is now is not stable or productive.

No, it does not worry me. If they start voting against everything, they will gain little support at the next election. This is the problem with Abbott. We know what he is against, everything that Labor has introduced. We do not know what he stands for. We do not know what his vision is. I suspect if he told us, we would run a mile.

The problem is that Mr. Abbott and his supporters do not know they have not won. Labor has not won also. If any party has won, it is the Greens. I like to think the voters have won. A government made up of more than one party represents more people. The only thing needed for this to work is to have respect for all members of the parliament, not only in your own party.

Do not the rights of the Greens and other minority parties have any merit? The present system of winner takes all does not make sense. You are saying that only one party has all the answers. I am old enough to remember Mr. Menzies not being to proud to steal policies from Labor after elections. Mr. Abbott would be better at looking at what can work instead of what he destroys. It is not about whom, what is right, or wrong, it is about what is the best way to do it. There is more than one way to skin a cat.

Whether it works depends on whether the media is willing to give it a fair go. Grow up, sometimes change is in our best interest. The two party system is being found wanting. Statesmen can make it work. If it can work in most other western countries, surely we are mature to do so,

Those people who are raving about the mining exports, want to grow a brain, because they are paying for that mined coal or iron ore whenever they buy any foreign goods. Whether they buy Chinese clothing, tools or other goods, Japanese goods, German, Indonesian goods, German or Italian, French or any goods from other countries, they are paying for that coal or iron ore exports as well as any other exports we have. Most of the trade payments were made in the World Trade Centre which was destroyed, but of course it has been replaced some other place. However you must realise that those foreign goods which the firms are selling and are what Australia had been manufacturing previously, means that our own companies have been forced out, and we will end up having to buy foreign goods because we have no manufacturing industries, and this will continue until we run out of coal and iron ore. Then we will have no coal for our own electricity, so no cooking or heating unless we start chopping down trees and burning them. The same story with our iron ore, no more manufacturing, all our factories ( now that's a funny one, I don't believe we have any more factories left, have you seen any?), The used to be everywhere, I haven't seen one for ages, and I used to work in one, and your Mother and Farther or Uncle and Aunt probably worked in one, ask them where are they now, I bet they don't exist, and your children and your families and friends and neighbours children won't have any place to work, sounds wonderful doesn't it. John Howard changed the rules on reporting of unemployment, if you are working only 1 hour a week, you are employed, and today many workers are getting only 2 or 3 days work a week, and are expected to be able to pay rent for their family home. This looks like it will continue, irrespective of what party is in parliament, they have not shown any indication of intelligence along these lines.

When the Australian constitution was written, it surely was written solely for politicians, because the people are unable to alter it or commence the process to alter it, and consequently, the only alterations that are made has to be instigated by politicians, but has to be passed by the majority of the people in all the States. This has a bit of safety, but not enough. There should have been provision for a safe non parliamentarian - no party person, to place any proposal to alter the conditions, salary and perks for our employees. It is then up to those who decide they want to be a parliamentarian, but the onus should be on the public– the employers, not on the people who are applying for that position of employee. They have an integrity commission in parliament, but the members can hardly say that they have any integrity, because when they join their party, they sign a promise that they will obey the decisions of the majority, I wouldn't call that integrity.

examinator, what "we" have done is vote out a poor government and refuse to allow an inept oppostion to take the reigns.
3 moments in the life of the last government stand out for me; the Indonesian solution on boat people, the ETS backflip and the super tax fiasco. Together these indicated a love of power over principle.
Tony arrgh Abbotts arr faltering delivery indicated that he was not arrgh across his brief, or not convinced of the merits of the arguments he was making.
This will be the high water mark for the Greens, they will no longer have the luxury of always being so smugly correct.

SM old mate,

>" *and the country's distrust of the greens*? "<

Wanna try again? Just in case you haven't noticed the greens
a. prefer over all Labor to Liberal (that's why it's called PREFERENTIAL voting. it pays attention to the majority *preferred* govt.)

b. the Greens won the biggest result ever. They even deliberately hold the power balance in the senate!

Your reasoning as usual is predicated on the facts that benefit the side you prefer. In this case selective disregard for preferential voting.
Did you forget that your side is a coalition two parties that exchange preferences.

Since when is 30 + % a majority of 100?

Two party PREFERRED is a total view of the majority of people.

You can't have it both ways. That's BS

The Liberals suffer from being a bunch of mean spirited BOYS who lied about real benefits of the stimulus package,couldnt put their costings up for scrutiny,dont understand technology and have no real economic understanding or vision.

Labor gave out all of the stimulus packages, Labor this term have not exhibited their costs for public scrutiny, if Labor comprehended technology they would be paying the 4.2 Billion [only a starting figure]they wasted as a result of no economising nor vision BigDamo65.

You have accurately described Labor's term under both KR and JG.

On most occasions Labor have ever held office, Billions in debt are left for the Liberals/Nationals/Coalition to devise strategies and implement those strategies much to the dislike of Australians who VOTED Labor causing the Deficit during those Labor terms.

Have you experienced 20 years of the Labor Liberal ping pong? If so, why on earth have you not observed the facts BigDamo?

Mate, unless you grow and export, not a good idea to throw comments around targetting farmers up north or anywhere. They are and have always been, the backbone of Australia and Australians along with other businesses.

we are unique
I have been around a long time and yes i have seen a lot of both parties.
As far as critisizing farmers my critisism was not against the majority of farmers who undoubtedly contribute greatly to the economy under adverse conditions while working EXTREMELY hard.Quite a few of which are effected by the rice growers water consumption
My critisism is directed purely at the fools who insist on growing the thirstiest crop in the driest country.For that critisism i make absolutely no apology and have every right to say it even as a non farmer.
Pure logic dictates its own indisputable truth.
As to the coalition being left to clean up a Labor parties debt i agree that happened under John Howard but if you are talking about the current stimulus package please pedal your rubbish to someone stupid enough to believe Joe Hockeys rhetoric

Has anyone seen the last two interviews with Rob Oakeshott, in particular the one on Lateline tonight on the A.B.C ?
He came across as intelligent, honest, transparent and just plain bloody decent.I wish he had of been in my electorate he definitely would have got my vote.
While the other 2 independants both have valid positions i have found him to be the best by far.

Examinator,

By country I meant rural Australia. Given the restrictions on developing land for farming, water, fire breaks etc, rural Aus is deeply mistrusting of the greens. BC's reference to restoring farmers' rights was a direct reference to this.