@ ECLIPSE

http://habitat.igc.org/vancouver/vp-d.htm

1. Land, because of its unique nature and the crucial role it plays in human settlements, cannot be treated as an ordinary asset, controlled by individuals and subject to the pressures and inefficiencies of the market. Private land ownership is also a principal instrument of accumulation and concentration of wealth and therefore contributes to social injustice;

Now.. forgive me for living in lala land but if words mean anything the above is abundantly clear about the socialist credentials of the UN or the people PULLING it's strings.

When you bluster about 'The science'..'The maths' etc is against me... huh? how so ? Have I said anything other than we need to have good stewardship of the planet ? All I'm doing is EXPOSING the corrupt, greedy,socialist side of the EnviroNazi movement.

Eclipse says:

If developers had their way, Australia would be approaching 200 million people and every last bit of our natural heritage, the public property that is our natural parks, would be paved over or ploughed up.

Indeed... quite possibly, but the forces holding such development BACK are not the Environazi's it is DEMOCRACY and freedom of speech, plus a liberal dose of common sense. Err tomorrow you and I can make a choice of who runs the country.

@ EXAMMY

Aaah.. we fight again :)

The thing which gives humans 'rights' is this "I am the Lord your God, you shall have no other gods before me"

Those 'rights' (and responsibilities)are spelled out in Deuteronomy in principle.

Jesus said you cannot serve God and Mammon... and quite right.
"Mammon" was the flesh...the self.. the greed the immorality the evil which comes from the human heart.

It's not a political statement.

If we do not acknowledge the Almighty and His revealed Word, then we have the gods of mans imagination, which might include the god of Marx, dialectical materialism. Or the god of DeSade....or the god of Machievelli, or the god of Gillard or the gay 'god' of Bob Brown etc.

In short.. it can go 'any'-where

ALGORE,

Your document is recommendations for a democratic market-based society. Even the paragraph you quote (out of context!) is full of qualifying statements, such as “ordinary asset” and “if unchecked”.

I think you would largely agree with paragraph 2.

Instead, the pattern of land use should be determined by the long-term interests of the community, especially since decisions on location of activities and therefore of specific land uses have a long-lasting effect on the pattern and structure of human settlements. Land is also a primary element of the natural and man-made environment and a crucial link in an often delicate balance. Public control of land use is therefore indispensable to its protection as an asset and the achievement of the long-term objectives of human settlement policies and strategies.”

You shared your desires for satellite cities and green spaces. How do we get there? By reforming the same town planning authorities that got us into the suburban mess! When reading the *whole* document it becomes apparent that they are warning against seeing *any and all* private ownership as sacrosanct above any other public consideration. They are talking about how to *balance* the rights of the individual with due compensation and the rights of the public or government authorities.

Paragraph D.3 says taxation could have “a controlling effect on the land market”, so there IS still a market and private ownership of land. But elsewhere they also talk about “adequate urban and rural land policies” , “appropriate legislation defining the boundaries of individual rights and public interest”, etc.

You’ve exposed yourself as a cherry-picker. Try drawing up a document showing how to move all those McMansions into your town plan without it being open to the same cherry-picking. Nutters just read what they want to!

The Dick Smith movie said 11% of Australia’s GDP is in the housing and construction industry. That’s over $100 billion a year. Which Australian greenie group has that kind of money?

Answer me this: how much choice did I have regarding whether or not to live in suburbia?

ALGORE,

When I asked about how much choice I had regarding whether or not to live in suburbia, I was making the point that *someone* in authority, in the ‘public’, gave developers the go-ahead to turn a bunch of Sydney’s local agricultural land into McMansions.

I don’t like suburbia. I don’t like having to drive everywhere. But I didn’t have the money to buy in Glebe! So how much choice did I have? How democratic was my decision to buy out here in suburbia? I just couldn’t afford the kind of inner-city pad my family would need to run a business from home.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGJt_YXIoJI

Sorry mate, but that’s down to bad *public planning!* (Oh no, they used the “p” word, Australia must be overrun with communists!)

How much money does Green-peace Australia and the ACF have again? Combined? And what’s the developer industry worth again? (Just whisper it in my ear?)

Get a grip, you’re actually embarrassing yourself and sound like you are foaming-at the mouth. THERE’S RED’S UNDER THE BED! We’re all going to die… aaaaaahhhhhhh!

Dear brother Eclipse :)

a) Sorry mate, but that’s down to bad *public planning!* b) (Oh no, they used the “p” word, Australia must be overrun with communists!)

On point "a" I tend to agree. But "Planning" is done relative to who is pulling the political strings.....I just missed out on being able to make megabucks... when a labor planning minister came in..grrrrr... Melbourne 2030 may was well be termed 'The Beast 666' as far as I'm concerned....but.. election coming up soon :) wooooHOOOOOOO.. and I think we Victorians have had enough of "FREE....way" (pre election) = TOLLLL way (Post election)

The Churches will NEVER forget OR forgive Labor and the Greens for their support of the draconian Neitzchian 'god is dead' Evil Opportunity and Repression Act.. never never never.

I told our local member (James Merlino ALP) as much after he popped up at a local prayer breakfast trying to score some Christian points. (It was a packout by the way)

Soooo... Labor will be 'out' in Vic come November I think..Libs will be 'in'.. but Familiy First will have a bigger voice. I'll order my Porche :) (kidding)and the universe will be in balance.

On point 'b'... a slight exaggeration but not far off the truth.
No one will be overunning us, but the Socialists are very determined to control every aspect of our lives. (Ring them and ask..I did)

(03) 9639 8622

If you want to campaign for 'Hi Density, (up rather than out) closely linked, public transport facilitated sattelite cities or something..I'm with you. But that kind of life is not everyone's cuppa....

I love some space, trees and the occasional Wallaby bouncing along my boundary.. and I enjoy it daily :)

ALGORE,
Glad to hear you admit the UN are not running a watermelon Greenie socialist conspiracy, but are in fact discussing changes to town policy legislation. It’s about time. Can you try and read documents you cite *before* making slanderous and silly accusations like that next time? This whole thread is responding to that one point: and you just surrender it by writing: “On point "a" I tend to agree.”

You wrote: “The Churches will NEVER forget OR forgive Labor and the Greens for their support of the draconian Neitzchian 'god is dead' Evil Opportunity and Repression Act.. never never never.”

Um, what? Is this a Victorian thing? We’re talking about the FEDERAL election.

Christians and Partisanship: Written by another acquaintance and fellow peak oil activist, Minister Byron Smith, currently studying his Phd on the role of the church in a world in crisis. (The Crisis being peak oil, global warming, and generally unsustainable and prone to collapse and dieoff events).
It contains the great line: “Consequently, voting is only ever possible while holding one's nose. I've rarely voted with much confidence and never without some degree of regret, often quite deep.”
http://publicchristianity.org/christians_and_partisanship.html

Does Australia need a Christian Prime Minister: written by one of my best friends, Dr Greg Clarke.
http://publicchristianity.org/christian_pm.html

And a video of Mark Driscoll on Christianity and society on legislating morality. You can’t! They also discuss the failure of John Calvin’s “Christian society”. Moral change comes from the ‘bottom up’ rather than legislating from the ‘top down’.

I think you’ll like Mark’s take on it.
http://www.publicchristianity.com/Videos/driscoll3.html

Hint: just relax about it!

Regarding Public Space and parks: I agree with you, but there are many options. It’s not ‘either / or’ but ‘both / and’ in a sumptuous environment.

Watch the 5 minute “Brief Introduction video 2010”. This is a VERY passionate and beautiful critique and alternative vision for Village Towns. I’ve met the author. This is happening south of Sydney! Watch the first 2 videos at a minimum!

http://www.villageforum.com/

@ Eclipse

No mate..the UN is seeeeething with commies :) they are everywhere!

But they, like the big bad wolf, dress up in Grannies clothes... and I think a goodly number of them really would.

There is an overwhelmingly stifling theme in that Vancounver declaration...it's called CONNNTROLLLLLLLL.. and I'm talking UBERcontrol

The language masks the diabolical motive but it's there.

"The UN" is not a monolithic office of like minded people, but a competitive war zone where ideologies are bringing the Panzers and scimitars out to do battle with non them.

Just look at this please.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE52P60220090326

That's just one example of how Religious interests are seeking to manipulate the UN for the furtherence of their own faith.

I tried your vids but just saw a black screen..... any other links to them ?