CHILD ABUSE (they don't call it that...they call it "'family management' techniques").

<< The Bible does say "spare the rod and spoil the child" >>

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=3754#91816

While we're back to cherrypicking objectionable passages from ancient sacred texts, thanks to Firesnake for posting these on another religion/school thread this morning:

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=10631#175705

Mind you, unlike the Islamic twaddle, this crap is already on the agenda in 'religious education' in public schools in Australia.

<<Mind you, unlike the Islamic twaddle, this crap is already on the
agenda in 'religious education' in public schools in Australia.>>

Religious education, as we know it, is contained and avoidable.
Proposed Islamic proselytisation seeks to insinuate itself into:
English (p.6),
Science (p.11),
Maths (p.14),
History (p.22),
Geography (p.33),
Arts (p.42),
Health and Physical Education (p.51),
Economics and Business (p.53),
Values education, civics and citizenship, global education and religious education (p.57).
http://www.nceis.unimelb.edu.au/school-education/resources-teachers/learning-one-another-resources

If you actually object to children being indoctrinated into religious dogma, sign the petition at:

http://islammonitor.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=3556:petition-agaist-lfoa&catid=276:fedaral-parliament

Al
"Let me ask please..IF.. you can find a mainstream Christian commentator who DOES advocate such things.. feel free to present it here :)"

That is my point exactly Al. The issue I have with you and Proxy is the tendency to quote objectionable passages from the Koran as proof of Islam's 'inherent evil' without recognition that most Muslims in Australia are not pushing for mistreatment of women/children or for Jihad.

We could spend days quoting passages from the Bible and Koran in a tit-for-tat exercise but it does not get us anywhere.

When others on OLO have pointed out the Catholic Church being remiss in treatment of child abuse cases you and Proxy become defensive about Christianity (only natural I suppose) when the condemnation has been about the behaviour or lack of action. One of you actually labelled it as an 'attack on Christianity'. Muslims must feel the same way when views such as yours are expressed.

It would be naive to be unaware of some of the more militant elements of Islam in Australia, but we have laws that deal with criminal acts including criminal acts committed by Christians or Atheists.

It would be also naive to ignore some of the more fundamentalist Christian groups like a few who come out with nonsense like blaming Abortion Laws for the Victorian bushfires. Who with commonsense and a modicum of intelligence believe a purportedley good God would be instrumental in killing a whole horde of innocent people as punishment for another's 'sin'.

Simply put, it is the militants we should be concerned, regardless of which religion they are pushing.

I am not sure I can make it any clearer. ie. Condemn the act not the religion unless the religion itself is uniformly condoning and promoting criminal activity. Al-Quaida does not represent Islam just as Christian Voice in the UK or Scientology does not represent all Christians.

PS: My intention is not to peck you with my beak but to engage in polite discussions wherever possible

Hi Pelly

glad 2C you are still hanging in here :)

//The issue I have with you and Proxy is the tendency to quote objectionable passages from the Koran as proof of Islam's 'inherent evil' without recognition that most Muslims in Australia are not pushing for mistreatment of women/children or for Jihad.//

Pelly.. didn't you notice my last response was showing how these ideas are actually 'mainstream'? Philips was invited to share his views by representatives of mainstream_Melbourne_Islam.

I do see your point.. really.. but I must correct one thing you said..

"When others on OLO have pointed out the Catholic Church being remiss in treatment of child abuse cases you and Proxy become defensive about Christianity "

I'd love you to show me where I've been 'defensive' of child abuse in the Catholic church.. au contraire...I don't know what Proxy's done but in my case I always refer the matter to scripture.. and Jesus unambiguous condemnation of such things.

There is nothing to 'defend'..I just join with my Lords own voice....it is vile and horrible and in no way reflects HIS divine standard.

Do you not see where this is the huge difference? (Between Islam and Christianity?)

Islam.. by it's holy book and by the informed opinion of respected scholars.. actually permits this stuff.

I repeat if I may.."show me" a Christian scholar of similar standing as Philips...who actually advocates or offers a rationization for child sexual abuse..

They simply don't exist. Unless you wish to quote "Moses Berg" of Children of God infamy.,...yuk. His 'rationlization' by the way is "we must love each other" oh yeah...RIGGGGGGGHT.

If you want to call the Coburg ISSNA 'fanatics' or 'extremists'.. they might disagree..but the one time I visited the place I interviewed a FEMALE there casually on such matters and she was quite open about her support for 'old marrying young'....good for my age bracket but not so good for her 6 yr old daughter wouldn't u say ?

Don't hate anyone... that's not the point. It is however about good public policy ..which involves immigration..schools/education and the such like.

Dear Poirot...sorry I haven't specifically addressed your concerns yet.

You ask:

I think that CJ is just trying to fathom is why you have to keep making the same point, and why you aren't equally diligent in tackling passages from the Jewish or Christian scriptures that promote tenets or behaviours which would not be thought acceptable in modern western society.

We can probably summarize these as "not" the typical left wing agenda.

No Abortion
No sex outside marriage
No Homosexual behavior
No Child abuse.
No Extreme environmentalism
No Extreme animal 'rights'

I'd have to scratch around for specific verses for all those, but the gay issue and child abuse is very clear. (this is CJ's queue to call me a hypocrite :)

I suggest that the main issue's of contention which 'modern' society finds objectionable with Christianity is not the PERMITTED behavior but the non permitted.

Keep up the good work.. (on me:) I at least 'feel' more mellow than in the past ....

Boazy: << No Abortion
No sex outside marriage
No Homosexual behavior
No Child abuse.
No Extreme environmentalism
No Extreme animal 'rights'

I'd have to scratch around for specific verses for all those, but the gay issue and child abuse is very clear. (this is CJ's queue to call me a hypocrite :) >>

Nope. This is where I say put up or shut up.

Given your insistence that your sacred texts are to be taken literally, I think it's incumbent on you to back up every one of those apparent proscriptions by reference to biblical text.

Off you go. I look forward to your report :)