I seem to recall that this topic by *Ifti* has been thrashed out on more than one occasion in this place, and would again merely state for the record my current position, which is that I am of the view that children ought be afforded the right not to be indoctrinated.

Accordingly, I would ban religious schools entirely and also religious education, except in the form of a unit of "comparative religion, philosophy and ethics in a modern multicultural Australia," or something similar.

..

The following article relates to a fermenting, religious flash point in Indonesia currently, and thought that I would offer it up for consideration:

http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2010/07/03/islamists-eye-proselytizing-christians.html

" ... Islamists eye proselytizing Christians
The Associated Press, Bekasi, West Java |
Sat, 07/03/2010 12:25 PM | National

A banner with a picture of a young, bespectacled Christian man is draped in front of the mosque, a fiery noose around his neck and the words: "This man deserves the death penalty!" ... "

Oh, a word of caution, there are some comments following the article by readers that you all may care to avoid as they appear not to have been moderated to the same standards as held in this place.

On a positive note, we bottled my latest wine home brew this morning.

Made from 2 kilos of "sticky rice" and 4lts of Indo Aqua a yield of 9 clean 650 mL bottles was generated.

Fermented over a period of approximately 14 days in an air conditioned room, I am in particular looking forward to trying this batch later this evening as unlike previous batches, this one is fermented with a "new" yeast, which I obtained from "Brew Craft" in Perth, Osborne Park when I was last in town:

(and loved the cold weather, and was walking about in a sarong for 6 days before my core temp came down and I decided to put a tracky on)

VINTNER'S HARVEST
(premium wine making products)
PREMIUM WINE MAKING YEASTS

CL23 Saccharomyces Bayanus - Ideal for crisp, fresh dry white/blush and all sparkling wines. Also the best strain for high alcohol tolerance.

and samples to date have demonstrated quite a different range of tastes and flavors .. mmmm!

No 5 year storage + second fermentation process, but rather post in the glass bottle pasteurisation for a prolonged radiant effect to quieten the yeasties down, into the fridge and then upon being chilled, into it.

The flavors do noticeably mature in the first couple of weeks though, and of course, no artificial colours, flavors or preservatives used (and that makes a notable difference, including to the hangover effect if one overly indulges)

Materials cost of production excluding labour comes in currently at around 75c per bottle, which is far preferable to paying $AU50 for a bottle of imported Australian wine which you otherwise wouldn't pay $AU10 for in Australia.

..

And PrayTell *Brother BoazY* are you of the real mccoy or rather the grape juice variety when it comes to communion and the taking of bread and wine?

DreamOn,
You have to understand that these Islamists recognise that
Christianity is a religion of hate, and not a religion of peace like Islam.
Therefore they have to kill the Christians to prevent peace-loving
Muslims in Indonesia being subjected to the hateful Christian
message, possibly being brought under its evil spell and turned into
murdering haters.
It's the only reasonable path for them to take.

Furthermore, their actions are doctrinally justified by the Koran:
* Infidels are your sworn enemies (Sura 4:101).
* Be ruthless to the infidels (Sura 48:29).
* Make war on the infidels who dwell around you (Sura 9:123, 66:9).
* Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day (Sura 9:29).
* Strike off the heads of infidels in battle (Sura 47:4).
* If someone stops believing in Allah, kill him (al-Bukhari 9:84:57).
* Take neither the Jews nor the Christians for your friends (Sura 5:51, 60:13).
* Kill the disbelievers wherever we find them (Sura 2:191).
* No Muslim should be killed for killing an infidel (al-Bukhari 1:3:111).

The Islamists are only trying to stop the hate.
You should respect them for that.
More importantly, you should respect the faith which teaches them how
to go about this important task.
It's all set out clearly in their Holy Book.
And who are we to argue with its divine and perfect message?

Hi Dreamy.. as for me I'm easy either way. Not being an alchoholic it's just a bit strong, but not dangerous (real thing)

But YOU ? :) U boozer you :)

Poor PROXY.. in the sin bin for a month.. OLO will now become one borrrring place :(

OH dear CJ.. you are such a slave driver.. *sigh*

No sex outside marriage

http://www.layhands.com/IsPremaritalSexASin.htm more verses than you can poke a stick at CJ plus a wholllllleeee lot of etymology and commentary.

No Homosexual behavior Lev 18 but a new testament reference which is quite unambiguous is 1 Cor 6:9ff

9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And that is what some of you were.

Notice CJ..in terms of hermeneutics/interpretation, this is in the form of a declaration.. easy stuff.

No Child abuse.

http://www.suite101.com/lesson.cfm/18429/1671/4 gazillions of verses.

No Extreme environmentalism

Pslam 19
1 The heavens declare the glory of God;
the skies proclaim the work of his hands.

2 Day after day they pour forth speech;
night after night they display knowledge.

This is a bit indirect..why would we abuse that which declares the Glory of God ?

No Extreme animal 'rights' (an easy one)

Romans 1: 24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

"Extreme" animal rights elevates created things...creatures to the level of 'divinities' (cf Hinduism)

and there I went :)

PS...where the heck is Pericles ? ? ? I miss the eloquent abuse.(advances my creative writing skills)