http://www.mycatbirdseat.com/2010/06/obamas-letter-to-lula-exposes-us-dishonesty-with-iran/
Turkey and Brazil have offered to take 1200 kg of enriched Uranium from Iran in exchange for less dangerous uranium to be used in their medical facilities.

The US under pressure from Israel, has passed in Congress that sanctions to applied to Iran for it's failure to comply with the stock piling of uranium that can be used to make nuclear weapons.3 weeks earlier to this Iran agreed to such and exchange but was ignored by the US.

Israel has between 200-300 nukes yet there are no weapons inspectors there and no mention of sanctions.They applied sanctions against Iraq and there were no weapons of mass destruction.1.4 million Iraqis have been killed and 58 thousand US soldiers wounded or killed.

Can lust for oil justify our behaviour?

Any one who did not instantly know who posted the thread must be brand new to OLO.
But how much substance is there to arjays claim.
Not for a milli second would I regard todays Iran as a victim.
A victim that is of anything other than its own bigoted leadership and religion miss used by those in control both of the country and its places of worship.
America for all its faults is so very far in front of this country as it is today I find it stunning even if it is arjay,,, that anyone can support them against America.
Love them or not if America did not exist we may not either.

Belly,If you are ever able to extricate your head form the sand of ignorance and self deception,I will throw a party for you.

Did you read Obama's self incriminating letter to Turkey and Brazil? I suspect not.

Arjay, are you able to set aside Israel and the USA for a moment and look at the well-being of the Iranian people alone?

If the Iranian Islamic regime today already oppresses the people (ordinary Iranians), even without nukes, how much fiercer would it be once it gets those nukes, such as North Korea, knowing that no-one from the outside would dare to interefere in an attempt to help alleviate the suffering of the oppressed?

yuyutsu,from what I hear,Iranian people live in a quite affuent society unlike many people in the USA.Parts of the USA have 50% unemployment.This stat would be unheard of in China.

So what is your economic solution?

Arjay,

"Iranian people live in a quite affluent society... So what is your economic solution?"

The woes of the Iranian people are not of an economic nature, so as far as economics are concerned, if it's ain't broken - don't fix it!

The Iranian people are oppressed by a religious dictatorship, they live in fear of the "revolutionary guards". If they are caught doing something "un-Islamic" they are locked up and lashed, or even hanged.

I know an Iranian who was caught in the possession of "heretic" books (eg. of a different religion). He was arrested and would be hanged for "deserting the faith". (He managed to escape, cut the border and is now a refugee in Australia).

Have you considered being a Baha'i in Iran?
(no, they all went to heaven)

Then there are the restrictions on love: if a man and a woman (unrelated) are found together, uh-oh... they are in for BIG trouble (ditto for homosexuals).

Iranians are not free, they cannot replace their leadership because the final authority lies with the un-elected religious supreme leader.

Iranians cannot for example overthrow their current PM who belongs to an extreme sect that believes that their "hidden-Imam" is about to re-appear very soon, bringing with him all deceased believers back to life, hence it doesn't matter if Iran is "temporarily" destroyed in a nuclear counter-attack.

Had Iran been a free place, I would not have had to worry about their nuclear program.

Iran is an Islamic theocracy.
Clearly it is therefore approved by Allah.
Who would criticise that which Allah has ordained?
No man-made form of governance can surpass that which is divinely inspired.
Only those who have been beguiled by Shaytan would say otherwise.

While arjay the tower of Babel never existed, even Christians have understood it is a fable.
You, we all give in meaning today.
Humanity is a massive thunder of many voices many opinions some no one can understand.
Your charges that I need to get my head out of the sand even give evidence you fail to understand.
It is our right to be different, to think differently, to be wrong or right.
The world in your view is hopeless.
You find reason to protect such as those who enslave Iran from within, ignoring those within that country who every day die for freedom.
You blacken America at every chance but one thing arjay you succeed over whelming success, you contribute to a very real conspiracy.
A lie that has full control of the middle east, it enslaves that part of the world, every part of it including Israel.
Spreading evil lies and hiding the intent to kill all enemys in a war this planet must try to never have.
Look to the good in America or tell me another country that can preserve world peace.
Arjay it is my view you are in no position to tell any one you know better open your eyes bloke understand what Iran wants for us Israel and the west

Arjay,

This info is regarding the 6th of June to the 10th. In the last WEEK.

"Iran Human Rights, June 10: One man was hanged in public in the town of Sarab, northwest Iran.

According to the official Iranian news agency IRNA, the man was hanged in the Chamran square of the town, which is near Tabriz in northwestern Iran. The public hanging took place yesterday Wednesday June 9, and the man who was identified as "M. H." was convicted of murder by a clashnikov.

According to our reports, 20 people have been executed during the last four days."

You said,

"Iranian people live in a quite affuent society unlike many people in the USA"

What's this about head's in the sand?. The term affluent also alludes to "civilized". What's your thoughts on Iran's human rights track record, Arjay?. Seems to me you're evolving from conspiracy theorist to Islamic fundamentalist apologist.

Iran and Turkey have been running joint operations against Kurdish Civilians & PKK Guerrillas (Air & Artillery Bombardment) within the supposedly "protected" Northern Iraqi, Autonomous Province of Kurdistan.

Turkey, as a result of being told by the EU not to bother seeking admission (due to the Armenian Genocide & the ongoing genocide of the Kurds), has chosen its path, and that is to be a major player in the War against the West.

Any "enriched Uranium/Plutonium" Iran sends to Turkey will probably be back there within a week (or Turkey will try to equalize with the other Sunni nations and build its own bomb).

The importance of Kurdistan in this CANNOT be overstated. The US/UK/etc. have been knifed in the back by Turkey, who was our supposed ally in the region (although, to be realistic the signs have been there for some time, as a consequence the airbases in Kurdistan to replace reliance on Incirlik).

As the Incirlik airbase is THE ONLY reason for the continuance of the Alliance, then there is no REAL reason for America & Turkey to remain in an Alliance. The current diplomatic thaw between America and the Russians should leave both free for the moment to do what they want to do, destroy Chechnya and Afghanistan respectively.

I honestly wonder, whether it is time to "give" the Russians a port in the Indian Ocean? They would seriously offset the effects of radical moslem extremists (who they tend to deal with better than us).

In terms of Cold War II type scenarios, it really would be irrelevant, they'd pose less of an "actual" risk than Iran (which would no longer exist - that'd be the Indian Ocean Port).

Iran is no shining light of democracy ,but neither is Zimbabwe.Why don't we want to help the poor people of Zimbabwe?That's right ,they need to find oil first.

The USA is no longer a shining light of democracy.After 911 Bush brought in the Patriot Act which suspends habeous corpus and allows for Presidential orders to by pass Congress.Obama's preventataive dentention makes it legal to keep a suspect in gaol indefinitely with no legal recourse.Obama has now made it legal for the USA to carry out assassinations in and outside of the USA on anyone they deem to be a terrorist.You call that a shining light of demosracy?

No one has addressed the fact of Israel's 200+ nukes which are illegal and the fact that Israel and the USA want to invade Iran under false pretenses.

If you all want an idea of the real power plays in the Middle East see
http://www.veteranstoday.com/gordon-duff-israel-saudi-war-pact-on-iran-hogwash/

Gordon Duff says that Iran has the power to close tdown the straights of Hormuz and send the world into a deep depression.Why would Israel want to do this?

Arjay,

"No one has addressed the fact of Israel's 200+ nukes"

What an under-estimate, so you better not fool around with Israel!

You have not addressed the fact of North-Korea's nukes, only 6-7 bombs are preventing the world from saving those most miserable people on earth (more miserable even than Zimbabwe).

"which are illegal"

Oh, and why? Israel is a sovereign nation which never signed any agreement to abstain from developing nukes (North-Korea and Iran did sign, so have India and Pakistan).

"and the fact that Israel and the USA want to invade Iran under false pretenses"

Who in their right mind wants to invade a radiocative desert?

The times when anyone with oil could get away with just everything (Re: Saddam Hussein) are all but over.
The reason that Iran has not been nuked yet is not its oil, but the fact that there are innocent civilians living there. However, when the balance stands between the lives of Europeans vs. the lives of Iranians, then Europe (and its American NATO ally) has the right and duty to defend itself, saving its own people by destroying Iran.

The only false pretense is by Iran, pretending that all its nuclear and missile arsenal is intended for Israel, causing people like you to salivate with glee, even ignoring all facts and Iran's atrocities. The truth is that Israel is not a high-priority on Iran's list: it is Europe which they eye to conquer and export their Islamic revolution into.

Fortunately, Russia and China made it clear in which camp they stand. Turkey and Brazil on the other hand (along with a few others like Venezuela) sided with the Islamic-revolution forces. Interesting to note that Lebanon chose to be neutral. A likely next step could be the Anschluss of Turkey by Iran. These are the powers currently arrayed for WW-III.

Oh yeah, I forgot, this all boils down to Israel's Nuclear Weapons... OK, When has Benjamin Netanyahu PUBLICLY STATED THAT HE INTENDS TO WIPE ANY COUNTRY OFF THE MAP?

Never?

Damn... So why are Israel's weapons of any interest here?

I mean, that is presuming that they have them and that is a long way from established, always seemed a little pat to me, that some clown with mental instability 'managed' not only to get a job in the most secret installation in Israel, without a rigorous background check by MOSSAD, but managed to repeatedly smuggle a camera in there?

That said, the bluff, which I rather suspect it was, has worked a charm...

It is a long way from being in any way as dangerous as Nuclear Weapons in the hands of the certifiable lunatics in charge of Iran.

Anyone without a bad case of Anti-Israel Personality Disorder would presumably be capable of thinking about this rationally, but despite the fact that the Turks & Iranians are KILLING CIVILIANS together, all you can discuss is Israel.

Not how on earth we can trust Turkey to safely protect our welfare, when it is KNOWN to be working with Iran militarily already. This is not make-believe, this is based upon news releases from both Nations to Reuters and reporters on the ground (in Kurdistan).

Can we please retain some rationality in this discussion? I don't see how Israel's supposed nuclear weapons have anything to do with it, they are nuclear capable (but then again, so are we - our 155mm howitzer can fire tactical nuclear shells, while our F/A-18's and the Super-Hornets can both deliver the bombs)

Custard,Israel has 200+ nukes illegally.It is against the nuclear non proliferation treaty.Israel is currently scheming to attack Iran.It does not the evidence.The US lied about Iraq having WMDs and they are lying about Iran having WMDs.Which countries have Iran invaded? The US has invaded Vietnam,Iraq,Afghanistan,Pakistan and meddled in many country's polictics around the planet.Israel cannot be trusted even by her allies.

Iran defended itself against Saddham a US generated despot.When he got out of control they finished him off.Saddham started trading oil in the EURO instead of $US and that would not be permitted.

Tut, Tut, Arjay....You are silly, aren't you. These good people are merely pointing out how well this strategy works - we can all see the results in the shining nation that Iraq is today (What Ho!)
The Iranians obviously need to be invaded for their own good (just like the Iraqis) - That's what western imperialism excels at - deploying its glorious brand of Acme democracy and inserting it like a cleansing suppository while flitting hither and thither throughout the globe.
Besides, America has form when it comes to dealing with democracy in Iran...they were instrumental, were they not, last century of turfing Iran's democratically elected government and installing the Shah.

Arjay, you've seen these Nukes?

Popinjay, Iraq needed to be invaded, but everyone should have got out the minute Saddam was found and executed.

Let the Sunni & Shia fight it out amongst themselves...

As to Iran, I see absolutely no way that allowing the Russian Military what it has always wanted (an all season port in the Indian Ocean) would threaten peace in the Middle East any more than Iran is now.

The Russians would then have to deal with the ratbags, but they've used chemical weapons for that in the past (just imagine if the US/ADF did that?), with particularly good effect.

That would get rid of one saber rattling idiot from the region, I'd also give them free reign with Turkey (a traditional enemy), giving them a Mediterranean Port as well.

Quite frankly, the rapid resurgence of the Cold War is of less concern than the nuclear arms race in the Persian Gulf. At least with the Russians, there was an ability to use brinksmanship (NB they were not criminally insane, except perhaps Stalin). The same cannot be said for the denizens of the Gulf, I have no wish to go out because of Allah (and "Mutually Assured Destruction" won't work with mentally handicapped, nutters who think in terms of 72 virgins).

Some times arjay old blokes take a bit longer to learn.
Today via OLO yet again maybe I learn to look behind your posts.
How old are you mate?
Not that you need say but if you do not mind?
I such a long time ago,, in a far different world held views about Communism, Social justice, rich and poor that looking back proved to be just wrong.
I knew about America financing the second world war, even letting the Russians die in huge numbers for all our freedom.
And I Saw America, for the second time, rebuild Europe.
Japan too.
Brazil and other south American country's hide Nazi war criminals.
Turkey? struggles to not become an Islamic state,, fights internally to stay the show piece of the near and middle east.
That battle may already be lost,, for a time at least.
Know arjay,, understand,, history is full of warnings if the bomb falls into the wrong hands,, hands that think God loves murder you will see reason to change your mind.

Arjay mate....

it's not 'lust for oil' but desperation for survival which drives all these geopolitical moves mate.

Surely you know this by now ?

Survival is like a chess game.. you have to anticipate not just the next move or 3..but the implications of each one.. in terms of power balance and strategic advantage.

Grow up.. please.. or it's off to my special 're-education' camp for you:)

I Boazy think age may play a part in arjays ideas.
Can you say you never had thoughts and ideas that you no longer have.
Can any of us, say we know for sure we know better.
I however as much as I may not want to, agree it has nothing to do with oil.
Can anyone prove America is profiting from oil it would not have got without the invasions.
Yes invasions, looking back it can be Seen we in the west got it wrong, we will not this time.
But history is full of country's using the world as toys Spain Portugal Britain,France Germany and NOW?
See chinas imprint on the people of Burma states in Africa and the middle east self interest kills fairness when country's expand

Mortechai Vanunu was jailed for 18yrs for being a whislter blower on the production of Israeli nukes.He was recently kidnapped in Rome and jailed again by Israel. see the proof http://www.vanunu.com/nukes/index.html

AiR and Belly see also http://www.wearechange.org/ I have met the founder of this site Luke Rudowski and it has supporters all around the planet.It is time for both of you to become less ignorant if that is possible.

AIR & Belly are stating that you are seeing the world through some awfully youthfull glasses. It's ok, just pointing out that as you grow older, the problems, the causes thereof and the solutions thereto grow less and less clearcut, the black and white become a sea of greys...

As to Mordechai Vananu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mordechai_Vanunu), you could at least get his name right. Like I say, I find it INCREDIBLY difficult to believe that someone with such a history got a job at such a high-security facility without a background check by MOSSAD. Incredibly (and I mean, it defies credibility) he not only made it into said site, but managed to smuggle a camera in there as well?

Unlikely in the extreme, even more unlikely that he would be allowed to travel outside the Country without being watched...

Seemed too pat at the time, seems too pat still. I don't doubt HE believes what he saw/was shown, but whether the poor fool was seeing what he thought he was seeing is questionable.

Cui Bono? Israel's supposed nuclear program became known and the Arab Armies, particularly Syria & Egypt backed down bigtime. There has been no third party verification of the existence of these supposed WMD, which makes me suspicious as well. They are just assumed to exist: (1) because Jewish Scientists worked extensively on both the Russian & American Weapons programs; (2) because of the "reported" disappearance of a shipment of enriched Uranium/Plutonium on its way to France and (3) because of Mr Vananu's statements.

Seems like there is a real chance of it being smoke & mirrors mate... After all, the Iranians have access to the equivalent amount of enriched material and haven't made one bomb according to you, so why would Israel have done so much better?

Logically, without independent verification of either, you cannot choose to believe in one and not the other. You must either choose to believe in both (without proof) or neither (because of the absence of proof).

Custard Israel has form.What about the Liberty incident of 1967 when Israel blatently attacked an un-armed us navel ship which was clearly marked and tried to blame it on Egypt.This is documented fact and it was covered up by LBJ.

If you go to http://ae911truth.org/ you will the scientific facts that prove 911 was an inside job.Now we don't know the details of who was involved.It definitely involved some of the neo-cons in the USA.Now Alan Hart and Dr Alan Zabrovsky are saying that Israel was involved also.

I don't think that even Israel would stoop that low,Custard.Do you think it was Cheney,Bush and the other neo-cons or did Al Queda have control of the CIA? An engineer told me that the US Govt may have had the towers and WTC 7 wired with exlosives just in case of a terrorist attack.Since they were iconic buildings and prone to such attacks it would make good sense to bring them down safely via controlled demolition but some fool forgot to warn 3000 deceased US citizens.

Perhaps we need an enquiry into the failure of the warning system is needed.Custard,how would you wire up two 110 storey buildings and one 46 storey building so they could be brought down safely? Larry Silverstein thought it could be done in one afternoon.He even phoned the insurance company that afternoon to make sure he could still collect if the had to "pull it" ie WTC 7.

Do you think Larry did the right thing in pulling it?

It is your thread, Arjay, and it is clear that you had no intention of discussing Iran in the first place.

You came here for just one reason, you wanted to hear something very specific, but unfortunately nobody understood you and so we all left you in the dark, poor thing, without giving you the kind of attention that you so badly need. So let me correct this now by finally telling you just exactly what you wanted to hear all along:

Israel controls the world, it has heaps of nuclear bombs and yes, if you'll be a bad boy it will come and nuke you out as well.

Happy now?
Good night!

Yuyutsu,Don't be too precious.This is about stopping a major conflict in the Middle East.It is also interesting to note that both Syria and Iran do not conform to the international central banking system.Their religion does not permit usery.

They are a bad example to the rest of us debt slaves that panders to a system that steals by counterfeiting money.The IMF has just created another $ trillion which depreciates our currencies and then have the audacity to charge interest on forged money.Kevin Rudd did not have to borrow from China since the RBA put up rates to decrease inflation.So on borrowed money we had a depreciation of our currency and paid the double whammy of interest.We are being milked by the Global Reserve Banking System.

Iran has done no wrong.It is the neo-cons of "The New World Order" pushing this agenda.They want a world Govt under one currency they own and there will be no democracy.

Dear Arjay,

Very nice of you to want to stop a major conflict in the Middle East.
Very nice of you to want to curb inflation and counterfeit money.

However, if it is my family who need to pay the price of your noble endeavours with their lives, then fight they will and nuke they will and win they will - or take the rest of the world with them to the grave. So would your family do in their place if they had the means to defend themselves.

Don't get too carried away Arjay.

>>It is also interesting to note that both Syria and Iran do not conform to the international central banking system.Their religion does not permit usery.<<

You are of course right, in theory. But in order to compete out in the real world, they have had to create "instruments" that provide a return to the investor, in much the same way as interest payments do.

Enter the sukuk.

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/585878-kuwaits-iig-to-restructure-after-default-on-sukuk

Note the key phrase, that the group were "defaulting on a payment for its $200m Islamic bond." The difference between failing to make "the periodic distribution amount of $3.35 million", and failing to meet interest payments on a loan, is discernible only to the religious eye. To a banker, there is no effective difference.

As we discovered last year in Dubai.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/dubai-worlds-debt-default-will-put-islamic-finance-to-test/story-e6frg8zx-1225804745267

I think you will find that Syria, too, is starting to join the wider financial world.

http://www.qatarmorningpost.com/news/newsfull.php?newid=285268

"The financial sector in Syria has not reached the level achieved in other countries," [Finance Minister Mohammad Al-Hussein] said. "We are interested to learn from other systems in the world."

Not sure about Iran, though.

Oh, wait...

http://www.developing8.org/2009/12/11/muslim-countries-eye-sukuk-issue-to-boost-liquidity/

"Mahnaz Bahrami, the Iran central bank’s director of banking studies and regulations said governments of Muslim countries would issue sukuk to each other which could transfer them to their financial institutions under the initiative"

And why would they do this?

"... the maturity mismatch on the balance sheet of Islamic banks is typically larger than at their conventional peers, as their funding mostly relies on short-term customer deposits due to the lack a long-term funding instruments."

The reality is that debt is debt, and has the same characteristics wherever it is incurred.

And whatever you choose to call it.

Pericles,I agree that there should be a price for money,but we do not need an international bunch of parasites creating it from nothing,thus diluting all our wealth.It is theft by stealth.

We need sorvereign Govts that can generate their own money,not a Global Coballe of facists dictating their agendas.

The Fed and the Res Banks of Europe created this GFC and are still profiteering via the demise of the Euro.This GFC was orchestrated just like the Great Depression.

Sorry Arjay, but your post makes absolutely no sense, from any direction and at any level.

1. money cannot be "created from nothing". There is always a corresponding responsibility to repay.

2. Sovereign governments do, after a fashion, "generate their own money", but once again, there is always a corresponding requirement to repay.

3. The GFC was not created by the "Fed and the Res Banks of Europe", or indeed any one agency. In the sense that you use here, i.e. deliberately caused, nobody "created" the GFC.

4. >>This GFC was orchestrated just like the Great Depression.<< You are either kidding, or totally misled.

You still need some very basic education on the topic of finance, Arjay. You will have a far more contented life if you were to get some.

Selective logic again Pericles.The IMF created $ trillion 12 mths ago and called it cyber money.They are doing it again to bail our the Euro.Let the derivatives and phoney banks fail.Save the real economy.

Surprise,surprise.They just found $ trillion in natural resources in Afghanistan.The corp media spin.Well they can wean the Taliban off poppy seeds and give them some of their resources instead.The Taliban had the production of heroine stopped prior 911.That area now produces 90% of the world's heroine.Grand theft and hypocracy by the neo-cons.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmffgIqlAYA

Even the comics are seeing what Turkey is up to...

Yalla, yalla, ya, jihad is sweet, jihad is fun...

I like the end line...

Yalla, yalla ya, I hit the switch and you are gone.

Addresses the problem I have with Islamic fundamentalists and nuclear weapons...

While "Mutually Assured Destruction (MAD)" was never pleasant, it was at least a method of ensuring a form of stability despite the fact that both the USSR & the USA had enough weapons to destroy ALL life on the planet.

"MAD" doesn't work, I cannot see how it can be made to work, with Religious Fundamentalists who see martyrdom as a direct path to Allah and their 72 virgins. The fact that they would be destroyed would guarantee their martyrdom, while striking a blow for Islam, I mean, that is the creed of the suicide bomber isn't it?

How do you propose that a resurgent Turkey, whose only real ally left is Iran (who they are conveniently taking the enriched Uranium from, lucky that) be treated with regard to this enriched material? Will it allow inspectors in to check what is being done with the material (or that it hasn't magically "flown" back across the border into Iran?)...

I love how the "anti" crowd somehow see this as a win for global safety... Erdogan and Ahmadinejad are now acting like kissing-cousins, so how safe is that nuclear material?

I am also always amazed how the same "anti" crowd, while devotees of the rights of voters in Western Countries, ignore the abuse of the electoral system amongst those who they love as non-conforming ideologies...

I'm unsure what exactly the USA or our Government has done to you, but try taking a realistic look at exactly what you are lauding as a win for world peace? Then try and argue, why precisely the world is a better place for it? I'd prefer your own argument (reasoned if possible), I'm rather over reading the incessant "party line"...