Foxy... what I don't understand is this:

1/ Foxy says she has faith in humanity.....

Or the fact that I still have faith
and belief in humanity? And that once
people understand the social authorship
of their lives and futures, they can become
an irresistible force in history.

2/ But Foxy preceded that expression of belief with a demolition derby of history which showed her belief in humanity is misplaced.

The 2 ideas are simply incompatable Foxy.

If you list all the sins of humanity.. and then say "But I believe in humanity" its like.."irrational". becuase you already proved that premise to be baseless.

You seem to maintain your optimism on the following grounds...

And that once
people understand the social authorship
of their lives and futures, they can become
an irresistible force in history.

Foxy the only 'irresistable' force in history has been the blade of a sword or barrell of a gun (or many) Islam, Marxism, Fascism

and the expansion of religious ideas... 'Christianity' for the first 300 yrs. (no Christian swords)

If you believe 'ideas' will win the day I am sad to inform you that history has been there..done that... but just like poor old Joseph was doted on by the old Pharaoh.... the book of Exodus begins with these words... (verse 8)

8 Then a new king, who did not know about Joseph, came to power in Egypt. 9 "Look," he said to his people, "the Israelites have become much too numerous for us."

I guess that pharaoh was not a fan of 'multiculturalism' :)

Speaking of which.. Kurgistan is experiencing a multicultural meltdown as we speak. Kurgys agin the Uzbeks... as I've said a 1000 times.. "when crisis or shortage comes.. people go tribal"
When r u going to catch up with reality ?

Stern,
I cannot confirm this thought but I think that Muslims migrating to a western cultured country see themselves as pioneers for Islam. I can see no other explanation for them wanting to be in a country with alien culture and laws.

This is akin to christian missionaries going to the far flung places in the world, to spread the word of god.

Once they have sufficient numbers, they can then influence the laws of that country and bring about changes more in line with their religious aand cultural beliefs.

The only confirmation I have on this is a quote from a former Algerian president who said that one day millions of arabs will go to Europe and conquer it with our sons, the wombs of our women will give us victory. I can dig out the actual quote if you wish.

"[Deleted for abuse. Poster suspended.]
Posted by Ginx, Sunday, 13 June 2010 2:26:25 PM"

(I was suspended for 24 hours).
_______________________________

Hard times are upon us. We do not need the pesky Muslim. Our own Aryan brothers are vengeful.

I write from a secret location. The suspension is still in place. Would that it were just that, but no!..., the Dark Age is here.

They send people around to inflict the most heinous punishment!.!.!.! I am missing my two front teeth-which is handy- because I am now able to suck pureed carrot through a straw-which fits nicely through the gap. I have eyes like Wankwank and Fooley our pandas. I am in traction hanging upside down with my keyboard hanging by a thread.

My Muslim friend Ey and Tawkin have viewed this thread with sadness. They are surprised that some posters here seek so strongly to emulate the behaviour of those who they (posters) so soundly condemn.

They are sad that my warning to POX an' BOZ was so erroneously misunderstood. They knew that if these SSD's were to chew through the straps, their trousers would fall down!-the belt buckle-thus freed from restraint-would rise up and strike the head forcefully thus causing brain injury! I shouted a warning! To no avail...

It was an act of compassion. We are so terribly hurt by my suspension. I have suffered-and continue to suffer greatly.

Tis a hard world to be sure...to be sure.

EanT will deflect all further evil injustice vested upon me-address all concerns to them.
__________________________

Ey Fahtiboomboom, and Tawkin Bolox. (Which some of you have been).
__________________________

So; I have further sinned. I have deviated from the perceptum!

I shall suspend myself.

Ah! cruel world.

Dear Al,

Yes, history is full of atrocities
committed by human beings. But surely
you must also recognize that history
is also full of the good done by human
beings as well. Aren't you optimistic
about our future on this planet?
I would have thought that as a self-
proclaimed religious man, you would be,
or are you only interested in the hereafter?

What I was trying to point out was that for
millennia, people have hoped for peace in
their time. Today, as usual, there is no
shortage of grand proposals for peace, yet
wars continue as before, and
indeed, we are likely to be disappointed
if we expect dramatic results in the form of
an immediate end to war and militarism.

The prospects for peace however look much
more encouraging, once we recognize
that war and peace are really opposite ends of a
continuum, and the movement along this continuum,
in either direction, is the result of social
processes that develop and change overtime under the
influence of government policies and popular pressures.

Today we have nuclear deterrence, arms control, and
international peace-making mechanisms for restraining
conflict among its members. These things may not always
prevent war, but they surely help make it less likely.

Anyway, back onto the topic...

Australia is predominantly a Christian country and
therefore much of its thought is governed by
Christian education. If we look back to our school
days, the teaching we encountered was predominantly
pro-Christian. Therefore as adults some
people are suspicious of anything that differs
from the norm.This has happened
throughout the history of each wave of new arrivals.
The fear of the unknown. The current global conflicts
of course don't help matters.
A Muslim extremist blows up military
personnel in his own country, to some people -
all Muslims in Australia are seen as a threat.
Yet few would question the role of our soldiers
fighting in Muslim countries.

It is sad, that most people only see things
from their own perspective and don't try to understand
or view things from those of others.

Dear Ginxy,

Welcome back!

Foxy" >>Dear Al, Yes, history is full of atrocities
committed by human beings<<

Foxy that is the problem in a nut shell. But if I may refine the comment to high light the severity of our ignorance, "the present has always been full of atrocities committed by human beings"...

We absolutely never learn from our mistakes. We know that life experience brings a perspective as to "what" is really important during life, but by the time we have understood our life lessons we are ready to shuffle off this mortal realm, and are too old to be involved in the decision making processes that rule mankind’s controllable destiny.

My solution to mankind’s stupidity is easy, we should live for 200 years, and thereby the knowledge of the first sixty years could be drawn upon for the next 140 years. Spose what I am saying is that self gratification will never leave our psyche, we are marionettes guided by our individual degree of greed.

Although there are great displays of humanity that give us hope that we could be better than we are, it is always buggered up by someone who wants what you have. The problem could be the short amount of time we have to accumulate what our greed and ego require.

Poooor GINX.. sheesh..she is writing from Larundel ? :) hug hug.

Foxy.. you ask:

But surely
you must also recognize that history
is also full of the good done by human
beings as well. Aren't you optimistic
about our future on this planet?

Good point... I am optimistic.. I guess.. but not so much.
I saw something on TV a day or 2 ago where some bloke was showing his 'new chip' under his skin... this concerns me (code for freaks me out).. read Revelation 13:16-17 and you'll see why.

My optimism however is founded on the certainty of the return of our Lord..not on mans ability to redeem himself socially.

I honestly think there is too much at stake for powers to just all get along.. you would see what I mean if you saw Jon Steward on the Daily show last night. "They've discovered massive amounts of (various ores) STUFF in Afghanistan..worth a trillion dollars"

Stewart noted "If we bomb the crap out of you now... just over some taliban idiots.. WAIT TILL WE GO after that STUFF" :)...

Of course..he was trying to be funny but there was a lot of truth in his take.

I'll try to be more optimistic. Seems to me though that evil will try it's best to advance.. and most of us wait till it's nearly too late.
732.. Tours and
1683..Vienna.

On both occasions.. were it not for providential circumstances.. in the first case a well trained and disciplined army of Franks.. and in the second the fact that Ottoman Allies the Hungarians held back...we would not be having this discussion.. or if we were it would be in Arabic.

I was mainly criticizing your logic, which seemed more wishful thinking than real based on the way you presented your case.