The Blue Cross,
No, I will not follow your strawman.

Foxy,
The purpose of my posting was to try and ascertain why you think poor public attitudes to muslims is undeserving and what the misconceptions are that we hold about muslims. I still cannot see why you think this.

It is easy to list many negatives as I have, but finding positives is far more difficult. Just being muslim is hardly a positive.

I think Sonofgloin expresses it well when he said "But although there are many positive things brought to our society by the Muslims as individuals, they are outweighed by the "blatantly obvious" negatives they bring as a collective".

Funny thing, there are more Buddhists here than muslims but they enjoy a far better collective reputation than muslims. I am sure some break the laws too, but not in the name of their religion. That could be the difference? They just seem to go about their business without any fuss. Never have I heard of Buddhists publicly chanting "kill the Jews"

Dear Banjo, SOG,

Thanks for your inputs.

I can't go against myself. I believe in the
humanity of people, and taking people as I
find them. This world of ours has a violent
history. People have been killing each other
for centuries. Russians killing fellow Russians,
Germans killing Germans, Muslims killing
fellow Muslims, Catholics and Christians killing
millions, and Nations fighting
each other over lots of things.

In Australia, we've had many waves of migrants,
and each wave had difficulties in the beginning.
But each eventually adapted, assimilated and
enriched our communities in so many ways.
Muslims have been living here peacefully for
decades. They aren't new arrivals as the media
implies.

I believe that we should dwell on what unites us,
as human beings, rather than build walls
and dwell on what separates
us. I wouldn't presume that I have a greater
capacity to love than strangers do,
or that my lifestyle is
the best for everyone, and they should comply with it.
We have laws and rules that protect everyone, and these
laws are the ones that people of this country need to
adhere to. Everything else is a matter of choice, as
long as it doesn't harm others.

I've been criticised for starting this thread and not
starting others, on other groups. Anybody who knows
me knows that I have started threads on a very wide
array of topics in the past - including ones about
the contributions that migrants have made to Australia.

I started this thread as I explained in my opening post -
not because I have some sort of "mandate" from the
Muslim community, as one poster suggested (I presume
he wasn't serious - just having a go at me), but
because I got inspired after the recent exhibit that
I saw at the Immigration Museum, on Afghan Cameleers.
It inspired me to start this thread - due to the many
recent negative threads that have been appearing
lately on this Forum against the "evils" of Islam.
I thought it was time to create a bit of balance,
and sanity to the discussions.

Dear foxy

your first paragraph was hysterically sad.

You first make an assertion "I believe in humanity"

Then... (I couldn't believe this) you proceeded to hack and chop and destroy that very assertion with real world evidence.

But surely.. having just detailed the sins of humanity in your paragraph.. are you not also derailing your argument?

Others might be tempted to wonder about how your mind works?

If you want to be optimistic fine, but don't you think it's a wise course not to allow that optimism to overide clear well founded argument and evidence to the contrary?

Allow it for 'you' sure,....but if you try to apply it outside your own small circle of those who might share it... the spring will suddenly and explosively go SPROINGGGGGGGGG.

SOG..classic and concise and accurate "do not fight for the freedom of one who would take yours away."

Probably the best comment on the thread :)

Dear Al,

What are you having problems in
understanding?

History? The actions of human beings?
Or the fact that I still have faith
and belief in humanity? And that once
people understand the social authorship
of their lives and futures, they can become
an irresistible force in history.

Whether we choose to destroy our civilisation
or save it -it is a collective decision -
and it is one that hopefully will be made
within our lifetime.

I know that if more and more nuclear weapons
are built, and if more sophisticated means of
delivering them are devised, and if more and more
nations get control of these vile devices, then
we surely risk our own destruction. If ways are
found however to reverse that process, then we can
divert unprecedented energy and resources to the
real problems that face us. Problems like poverty,
disease, hunger, and so on. I hope and trust that
our ultimate choice will be to embrace the life on
the bright and lovely planet on which all of us
share our adventure.

Foxy,

The resurgence of Islamic fundamentalism started in Iran in response to the actions of the Shah.

The Shah was sponsored and installed with the assistance of the US who had helped overthrow the previous democratically elected government (as they did in Iraq) to promote the interests of oil companies who were under threat of nationalisation.

While in power, the Shah literally killed off all the moderate opposition leaving the Khomeini as the only viable leader in the popular uprising that followed.

Christian Fundamentalism rose in the US as a result of direct right-wing political representation instead of remaining as lobby groups.

I suppose all these Australian Muslims could see the benefits of migrating to a Christian country, leaving their Muslim homelands, in a way Christian Australians would not understand.

However, it seems strange to me that, having fled the inequities and inadequacies of a medieval social order and Sharia law, they should seek to set up the same thing here....

But there is a name for it

Masochism

As for “contribution” well, individuals make “contributions”. Not religions and you can be of any faith you like...... well you can make that personal choice in Australia... but not in many of Muslim countries.

And maybe that is one of the core contributions which Australian Christians have made, to have developed a culture of tolerance unknown in Muslim countries.