cont'd ...

The principal foreign enemy of the fundamentalists
is the United States, whose presence in an
otherwise Islamic area is seen as a continuing
wound to all Muslims. They fear the impact of
American culture and political interference in
their societies.

Their own governments, they claim, are often used
as mere pawns in America's geopolitical strategy,
a strategy in which the interests of ordinary
Muslims count for nothing.

Despite their antipathy to the United States, the
fundamentalists are concerned mainly with conditions
in their own countries. Most Muslims are desperately
poor, for their nations' oil wealth has been unequally
shared, creating a new elite whose extravagant lifestyle
arouses deep resentment in the populace.

The fundamentalists aim at nothing less than the
replacement of their rulers by Islamic governments,
in which the distinction between the religious and the
secular would disappear. A perfect example of this
was the Iranian revolution of 1979 in which the shah,
a deeply unpopular ruler who was perceived as an
American puppet, was deposed through a movement led by
Shiite Muslim clergy.

Islamic fundamentalism, like the "Protestant ethic,"
arises out of specific social and cultural conditions,
and it may eventually, in turn, influence the
subsequent course of social change. As happened with
the IRA in Ireland.

We can only live and hope.

Dear Al,

If you don't "mention Islam in the slightest,"
what "other holy book" are you referring to
in your post to Rache?

Just curious.

Foxy,
I began to read the paper by Dr. Shafaat, but just skimmed through it after the bit where he said the US and Brits had killed hundreds of thousands of Iraqis and that the President dropped bombs on Iraq and Afghanistan to cover his sexual scandals. Also noted it was dated 1983 so how could reference be made to events in 2003? Obviously not correct!I can find fiction of my own choosing. Still another example of lies told by a muslim to further their cause, just like the recent woman who told lies about the police officer trying to remove her veil.

No, I do not have stats on the numbers of muslims and others killed by Islamic terrorist attacks, but Irfan Yussuf has said they kill more muslims than others and I believe him. Certainly after the defeat of Hussein in Iraq there was dancing in the streets but within a few days the sunnis and the shia were blowing each other up, vieing to be top dog. Too bloody minded and stupid to take the opportunity given to them, to make a decent country together. I expect quite a few Buddhists get killed in Thailand and some christians in the Phillipines.

The Blue Cross,
Since when have the Poms not been able to give up alien cultural practices when here. Our beer is served cold and that is the way it is. When was I moaning about 'them' coming here?

Suggest you look up the word 'alien'. You may find I was refering such things as FGM, forced marriages, female oppression, honour killings and ethnic hatreds. Granted there are serious problems in the old Dart with these issues now. We need to be carefull who we allow in, even from the UK or NZ.

Grateful,
Maha Krayan Abdo sounds to be a very astute person and an achiever. A person to admire. I am interested to learn more. Do you have a link for more info, especially like to know her thoughts and feelings about FGM and forced marriages.

But Banjo

I was agreeing with you.

'Them' need to be kept out at all costs.

All of 'Them' that do not agree with what it is to be 'an Aussie'.

But... what is that?

As that (Muslim) woman on Q&A asked the 'only Aussie practices welcome here' questioner the other night.

As for horrendous acts of cruelty.... indeed, we should avoid that here, including the barbaric practices of circumcision for non-health reasons.

Or is that an acceptable barbaric practice?

grateful: >>Whatever! We are both working for the same thing: a civilised environment to realise our potential and allow our children to do the same.<<


Firstly to apologize to Foxy for deviating from the core of the thread. I appreciate your sentiment in starting this topic.
But although there are many positive things brought to our society by the Muslims as individuals, they are outweighed by the "blatantly obvious" negatives they bring as a collective.

They are over represented in our juvenile justice system, flowing onto our courts and jails, flowing onto over representation as social services recipients. It is almost a career path, second only to the poor indigenous citizens caught in a similar spiral. We imported a social issue to satisfy political ends, and we as individual citizens are paying for it because of poor policing driven by "politically correct" politicians with an agenda. It is like branch stacking but you do it by electorate. The Libs got a boost with the post war immigration boom because many immigrants would not vote for anything resembling socialism. Labor is assured the Muslim vote because Muslims will not vote for anything resembling the right wing.

Grateful, re your quote. Are you sure that the "same thing" you want for your children is wanted by the other. The other may want all the same positive things for their kids with one addition, that your kids must conform to their culture, just because you are a live and let live individual others think differently. Do not fight for the freedom of some that would take yours away.

Foxy I know you have a "belly" full of disdain at world geo politics but as I said to grateful, do not fight for the freedom of one who would take yours away. Individuals are not important, their deeds are not important, except when they act in unison, and they would act in unison against your culture and your political system. The first world has exploited the Middle East, I didn't do it personally, I get exploited every day. So I do not carry a guilt that would allow my culture to be torn apart by the previously exploited who I gave a lending hand to.