Foxy: >> Your post reminded me of a paragraph I
read in a Sydney newspaper decades ago:

the right to be exactly the same as everybody else...
it's a lot easier to make yourself like something you really hate
rather than say you hate it and have everybody
go crooked on you."

How does this comment present Australians? <<

Foxy, twas the way it was back in the day. I remember a folksy song from the sixties along the same theme, no individuality and max social compliance, the song runs for under a minute and says it all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWeUiRAEXDk

Foxy we still have class conformity and gender conformity, but what our society does not have is a witch hunt by the authorities, spurred on by the church and outrage added by the press if you wanted to for instance worship Guppies, and dress in a head to toe Guppy suit. But that Guppy could not enter a bank, local state or federal offices, public hospitals, drive a motor vehicle, swim in a municipal swimming pool. Security is the primary issue, and public safety the second.
This week a full bag wearing Muslim woman after being pulled over for a traffic infringement refused to remove the bag from her head. That day she was on the radio in sound bites telling how this racist cop had ripped the bag from her head and been racist in his speech and manor. The next hour’s news sound bite brought Muslim leaders comments on the travesty that is happening every day to his community. Then silence.

The cop car had a camera, the cop was professional and civil, he never touched her, but the liar will not be charged. I really do think in all probability if it were the Guppies worshiper, or you or me, we would be charged with false allegations against a police officer.

Foxy am I scared of change, you bet when there is an agenda involved that I cannot trust the authorities to deal with within existing laws because of politically correct agendas.

Dear Pelly
when you make statements like this:

"Be kind like me, be compassionate, love the poor and the destitute, be gentle, care and love your brothers and be protective."

as a way of expressing the closeness of Christianity to Islam.. I just about have a coronary. Seriously.. nothing could be further from the truth.

Without trying to 'prove' that here..and infringe foxies rules :) I just want that on the record. I have not even said that difference is 'good or bad'...but I think you already know.

Grateful mentioned Khalid bin Al Walid... feel free to google that scoundrel and see exactly what kind of a loathesome man he was.

On topic. I can refer to one Muslim who is doing a great job.

Dr Berhan Ahmed

I met him at a function in Flemingston. He is a very nice bloke, and clearly good hearted. It's a pity that the night I met him was one where large numbers of Somali Muslims spent the night telling everyone there are no terrorists in their community.. just after the last big set of arrests. Of course this highlights the difference..
Berhan a nice bloke.. others not so nice.

http://www.att.org.au/berhan2009.html

Grateful.. if you stick to the topic and focus only on 'Muslims who contributed positively to Australia' and not use the thread as a platform for Islamic Da'wa.. you might get less anti 'islamic' comments.

AlGoreisRich,
Thank-you for the advice. So now it seems we are agreed that we should all be falling into line with Foxy’s topic.

IMO, we have every reason to be helping each other out particularly when the problems confronting us as a community are extremely challenging. Our disagreements are really about how such problems should be tackled and anyone serious about tackling the problems we share as a Australian community would bring these different perspectives together in a bid to come up with real solutions.

This topic, although it is not about tackling great social challenges, does lay the groundwork by seeking a constructive dialogue. Its good practice for all of us and I'm sure you and others have a lot to offer.

Foxy,
You referred to " community-business partnership experiences with people like Rob Hunt, CEO, Bendigo Bank." Do you have more detail?

salaams

I find it incredibly enlightening that there is a perceived NEED to talk up the positive contributions of Muslims in Australia.

We don't have to talk up the positive contributions of other immigrants..

Yet due to the actions of the accepted "Spokespeople" for the Australian Muslim Community, being Keysar Trad (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keysar_Trad) and Sheik Taj El-Din Hilaly (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taj_El-Din_Hilaly) and some of their more off the wall conduct, some people seem to see a need to put a positive spin on the community in a manner other than that sanctioned by the community (which continues to accept Trad & Hilaly as their spokesmen and therefore, they continue to be spoken for by them).

Interesting isn't it? I mean, I wouldn't dare to presume to speak for a 'Community' that had chosen specific spokesmen, especially when what I was saying directly contradicted their outpourings of racist (http://www.internationalfreepresssociety.org/2009/08/australian-court-rules-against-islamic-spokesman-in-defamation-case/ also see http://www.abc.net.au/sundayprofile/stories/s1868267.htm), sexist (who could forget the "uncovered meat" statement: http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/politics/beware-the-words-of-a-wolf-dressed-in-sheikhs-clothing-20100606-xn25.html?comments=47) and downright treasonous statements (http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/controversial-mufti-attacks-australia-in-tv-interview/2007/01/11/1168105116655.html)...

The MUSLIM COMMUNITY selected these spokesmen, they have not to my knowledge selected you to speak for them, especially where your views are not in sync with those of Trad & Hilaly.

Let the Muslim Community choose some decent spokesmen to undo the damage done to their image. They are the ones who have not only not demonstrated any positive contributions, but repeatedly behaved and/or spoken in a fashion which has directly increased the so called "Islamophobia" within this Country.

While ever the muslim community as a whole continues to support these two, the muslim community can expect to be treated like, well, uncovered meat (slimy, unpalatable and with a smell that is more than merely off-putting)...

Is that direct enough for you?

ALGOREisRICH,
The notion that some people are "fixated by ancient texts" is being done selectively by others in these threads for purposes of general vilification, as if it was some kind of proof.

I can assume that I'm hellbound because I've eaten shellfish and worn two different types of cloth on occasion but I don't take this seriously. What makes you think that one group of people abide strictly to their writings but another may not?

Comparing the worst of one with the best of another is not reasonable.

Suggesting that Mohammed was some kind of paedophile for example is meant to insult rather than prove anything about people in the 21st century. Some may be surprised to learn that according to custom at the time, Mary would have been married at between 12 and 14 years of age in an arranged marriage while Joseph was somewhere between 40 and 90 although these arrangements did not automatically imply consummation at those ages.

It's just another example of selective belief.
You yourself brush off the fact that some leaders of the BNP are convicted racist thugs as "ancient history" but them bring up notions from the iron age to defend Israeli aggression.

I remember years ago while living in Sydney,
a poliish man got into a fight in the local
pub, pulled a knife, and made the newspaper
headlines the next day. For a while - polish people
were described as "knife-wielding" thugs that
people were weary of. That of course passed
with time - when other ethnic communities
became the ones to fear. And so it goes.
What's new becomes old and acceptable with time.
And is replaced by others to fear.

Perhaps that's human nature, I really don't know.
I do find it amazing though that some people who
travel overseas, and really enjoy the differences
of the cultures they encounter, yet are
not that willing to be gracious to the
differences in their own backyards.

To me that's illogical. As for Hillaly - and others
of his ilk. He was simply a fundamentalist,
and we've got plenty of those in many religions.
The Islamic Community in Sydney got
rid of him - and strongly voiced their disapproval of what
he said. Communities can't be held responsible for
the fundamentalists in their midsts. They can and do
however voice their disapproval. For every Hilally
there's an equivalent in many other religious
communities, as we all know.

Single individuals - should be held accountable for
their own actions. No one else.

Dear Grateful,

The Bendigo Bank reference I believe was given in
the book, "Islam in Australia," by Prof. Abdullah Saeed.

Dear Wobbles,

Excellent post.

Thank You.