Dear Foxyness

Thank you for your just criticism. I tried to scale back my last post to Pericles.. I hope it is an improvement :)

Please let me know, and if I am still not meeting or approaching your standard.. feel free to further enhance my self improvement with more helpful advice *smile*

Pericles wrote:

"You know perfectly well that not all Germans were Nazis, whereas all Muslims, by definition, follow Islam."

That's incorrect and for ONCE Proxy (Boazy?) has a point.

Most "Muslims" I know are what might be called "social Muslims" or "cultural Muslims." They grew up in a Muslim environment. Their friends and family are cultural Muslims. They get together for breaking the Ramadan fast. They commemorate weddings, births, deaths and other events in an Islamic cultural milieu. But they are not regular Mosque-attendees and mostly do not take the koran or ahadith literally.

In other words they are like the many people who self-identify as "Christians" but who's Christianity is nominal. They know about as much about the koran as most nominal Christians know about the bible and they know even less about the ahadith. They have as much interest in bringing on a Muslim Caliphate as I have in rebuilding the temple.

That is why when reporting on my much-maligned research I am always careful to specify "Mosque-going" or "Mosque-attending" Muslims. At a GUESS I would say about a quarter of tertiary-educated Muslims in Australia fall into the regular Mosque-attending category. These people usually do take the koran and ahadith literally.

So at least among educated Muslims most do NOT, strictly speaking, "follow Islam."

Pericles,

On anther thread you asked me how many Southern Baptists I knew who take the bible literally. Since I don’t know any Southern Baptists the answer is nil. On the other hand I certainly know Christians who take the bible literally.

All those people who want to introduce creationism in the classroom aren't doing it out of scientific conviction. They're doing it because they believe that's what their holy books, usually the bible but increasingly the koran, is telling them.

If you doubt that the dogma of the Southern Baptists is biblical literalism I suggest you browse their website:

http://www.sbc.net/

And here is a link to their Muslim comrade in drivel.

http://www.harunyahya.com/

ALGOREisRICH,
It's all very well to quote from the Koran
but you know as well as I do that the true
meaning of Mohammed can only be revealed
by reading it in the original Arabic.
Even Mohammed's favourite wife Aisha could
have told you that, when 52 year old Mohammed
consummated his deep love for her at the age of nine.

Dear Proxy,

Any connection between your reality
and mine is purely coincidental!

Oi Steven

just a minor point. Many of those who would bring "Creation" into classroooms do so in the sincere belief that it is scientifically based.
Not all would share the same understanding or perspective.. there would be a mixture of young earth/old earth people.. but the huge amount of scientific material on 'Answers in Genesis' and other similar sites does try to argue for a scientific basis.

I am aware however that they are arguing science to prove 'Creation' so their conclusion is set before they start.... unlike the 'objective' secular scientists who would NEVER ever EVER 'begin' with a conclusion :)

Dear Foxy.. why not have a peek at that link I provided for Pericles...and see if you can get what the scholar is on about..and if you have any concerns about what he says as described in the information I provided?
It can't hurt can it? After all...I've not said anything about what "Islam Teaches" and the scholar is a highly reputed figure in the Islamic world.

A genuine approach would be this:

-See 'his' conclusion about the meaning of 65:4

agree/disagree..
If you agree, we can discuss that.

if you disagree with his conclusion...the genuine inquirer would seek alternative information from other sources and present that for our consideration.

That is called 'discussion' :)

You are quite right... I am sometimes way ahead of things..I begin with conclusions.. dump them on you all..then try to back them up with 'verse bashing'.. baddd me.. (true)... so.. we can try a better method no? (the above)

Boazy, why do you want to ban Waleed Aly from appearing on the ABC?

You stated earlier in the thread that you want to, but you haven't explained why, despite several requests.

Is it because he's a moderate Muslim who presents a reasonable and acceptable face of Islam in Australia?