Boazy, given your very recent deceitful performance on another thread ( http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=3686 ), you're hardly a reliable referee for anybody else's integrity.

Steven's reported methodology and his findings have about as much validity as your 'research' with young people about communism. While I don't expect that you understand why, Steven really ought to know better. My anecdotal experience is of similar value, which was my point.

Both of you, along with Proxy, regularly post much of the most hysterically Islamophobic garbage on OLO. Why on earth would any reasonable person take any notice of your purported amateur 'research' with anybody?

David Irvine was banned from entering australia because he expressed a particular offensive political view.

Cat Stevens also espoused a particularly offensive political view - that Salman Rushdie should be killed because of what he wrote.

How can any nation hold value to a belief and then let intolerant people like Cat Stevens pollute the environment in which the values of "freedom of expression" grow?

Allowing intolerant Muslims in is like fertilising your vege patch with round-up

Well, I have tried.

For the past few years I have attempted to point out to the fearmongers that the greatest threat to their well-being is themselves.

I have tried to hold a mirror to their fear and loathing, in the vain hope that they will try to see that we are talking about real people when we talk about religions.

That people can be religious and good at the same time, regardless of the label they choose to wear. Equally, that people can be religious and evil at the same time, regardless of the label they choose to wear.

That fanatics and terrorists exist at the fringes of every walk of life, and it is they who should be targetted, irrespective of whether they believe they are killing in the name of their particular "loving" god, or purely out of a sociopathic need to cause chaos.

Unfortunately, there has been little point in appealing to their common sense, their intellect, or their humanity. Their creed includes hatred of people who don't share their beliefs, and they will not be shaken from it by any argument from rationality, reality or reason.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to how we might approach this differently?

I've run out of ideas, frankly.

Even though the daily outpourings of the fear-and-loathing merchants is a constant reminder that we are in danger of becoming complicit in their hatred, simply by letting it through to the 'keeper.

And is it my imagination, or are there more of them (hi, Stern) appearing every week?

Dear Pericles,

No, it is not your imagination. A lot of the joy
of previous discussions has disappeared from
this Forum. We used to have some heated debates
in the past but always managed to agree to
disagree, and respect each others points of
view without resorting to innuendo and personal
attacks. Now there seems to be a
meanness and nastiness that's growing.

Proxy I am not saying the two experiences are the identical but there is, historically, a similar hate element ie. Fear, distrust, loathing and blame.

Steven
There is nothing wrong with criticising Islam, Christianity or any other position. In criticism there should be an expectation of response. It is only when there is widespread criticism or prejudice against one group, that might lead one to investigate the basis of the disfavour.

One can criticise aspects of any religion but acknowledge that most adherents are moderate and seek to do good, or at least cause no harm.

Proxy asks where are the moderates? If you are only looking for the extremists you will miss the moderates.

Pericles: << ...the daily outpourings of the fear-and-loathing merchants is a constant reminder that we are in danger of becoming complicit in their hatred, simply by letting it through to the 'keeper. >>

Yeah, I guess that's why I bother, I suppose. There certainly seems to be a lot of fear, loathing and hatred being expressed here lately.

I used to have a kind of professional fascination with the hateful views I encounter at OLO, but you're right, the sheer volume of them is a bit dispiriting. My main consolation is that I almost never encounter such hatred in real life, so I'm hopeful that the haters generally only act out their bigotry in text, anonymously.