Pelican,

Yours is a fair assessment and I agree with it. However the sting in the tail about footballers and "sexual harrassment and objectification" was unnecessary and unfair stereotyping. Few footballers are like that and it is wrong to disgrace them all.

By comparison, women sports have long had to live down a homoerotic tag and worse that anti-sports bigots indulge in (why?). Homoerotic labels against women sports and sportswomen are part of the reason why sponsorships are less forthcoming and why girls are still turned away from certain sports.

In decrying male sportsmen as homoerotic and possible gays, the usual offensive few on OLO are contributing to the overall stereotyping of sportspeople and that reflects on women and youth (boys and girls) as well.

OK I've heard about Freaky Friday, is this Mad Monday, where I find myself agreeing with Cornflower? Again?

Anti, man, don't bogart that joint my friend, think I need a toke right now.

"However the sting in the tail about footballers and "sexual harrassment and objectification" was unnecessary and unfair stereotyping. Few footballers are like that and it is wrong to disgrace them all."

Yes, fair enough, I take my slap fair and squarely Cornflower - not all footballers are like that. It was an opportunistic dig at some of those who continue to support the bad behaviour of those few footabllers without question. However it would also be foolish to pretend that there does not exist a football culture which sometimes at it's worst, reflects that worst side of some players.

I must live in a different world to some, as I have never picked up on the homoerotic stigma regarding women in sport.

I just see them as women who play sport. I would have to disagree that it is for this reason sponsorship is not forthcoming. I could be wrong, but I would have thought that most sponsorship and advertising is based on the number of fans and attendance records ie. more people to market to. Women's sport has never been as popular but that is changing.

Cornflower: << Homoerotic labels against women sports and sportswomen are part of the reason why sponsorships are less forthcoming and why girls are still turned away from certain sports. >>

I've never heard of this either. I don't suppose you have a reference to support this assertion?

Pericles,

'Are you suggesting that there is some kind of equivalence between men infiltrating the female change rooms, and homosexual men using the male changing rooms?'
No.

Do you think that male and female change rooms being segregated has nothing at all to do with women being uncomfortable being perved at by men? If no, as r0bert said, do you class women as heterophobic?

'I can't imagine what else you were trying to say'
I think you well imagine by reading the rest of your post. It's to do with 'knowing', and the social 'agreement', however naive, of some showering footballers. ie. 'We shower together in the safe knowledge nobody here is gay, so nobody is interested in checking out each others bits.'

'What would the difference be, in fact, between a) knowing the bloke was gay or b) thinking the guy was straight.'

Like a wife who knows her hubby is cheating and gets upset when someone points it out, because then she feels she has to do something about it, sometimes the reality makes all the difference.

The difference between all players being comfortable with the shared nudity situation (all under the same level of 'suspicion'), to one where some players would definitely be uncomfortable about some *particular* players. Personally 'I'm not bovered' either way, as I have said, but I'm surprised your imagination doesn't stretch to any of these footballers needing to believe none of their team is gay in order to shower together.

BTW: The Hoppoate comments strike me as naive. These people show a lack of understanding about sport I reckon. It's blatantly a simple case of 'physical sledging' in poor taste. Does anyone think a boxer hitting below the belt is gay? Sometimes I think the homophobe accusers are the ones with the homophobia rather than the supposed homophobes they point at. The latent homosexuality they see in everything that they think is denied by homophobes is actually not there, and the very reason they see this homosexuality is because they are the ones with issues.

pelican,

"However it would also be foolish to pretend that there does not exist a football culture which sometimes at it's worst, reflects that worst side of some players."

That is what negative stereotyping and scapegoating is all about isn't it, besmirching the many with the behaviour of the few? It is like seeing some black offenders on a US cops show and believing that all are like that. You would rightly object to that and so would I.

There are male and female Bogans and ferals aplenty in all walks of life and especially out on Friday and Saturday nights. From those who happen to attract the attention of police, there is no evidence whatsoever that footballers are worse than hairdressers or salespeople, or are men worse than women. There are troublesome people everywhere and they do not necessarily wear football guernseys.

Out of the thousands who play the various football codes in Australia just how many have been convicted of sexual crimes or crimes of violence? Rather than cause problems the availability of a sporting interest has given and is giving many young people, both male and female, the self respect and encouragement they don't get at home.

pelican, "I must live in a different world to some, as I have never picked up on the homoerotic stigma regarding women in sport."

It is prevalent, just use Google as you might normally do. I am not going to add to the grubby speculation about particular sports except to acknowledge that it is the teams sports that have attracted the sleazy comments from the anti-sport detractors. By way of another example, women's sports coaches were copping the homoerotic and 'homo' flack long before the malicious rumour-mongering turned to male coaches. Of course it only takes the odd rare example to confirm the 'knowledge' of critics. - Just as your sledging of footballers is 'confirmed' by the odd example sensationalised by a media usually relying of suspect sources and unproven allegations.