Dear Antiseptic,

A few questions:

1) Out of my few posts on this thread kindly show
me where I state that I am happy to condone
segregation of facilities based on gender
but not on expressed sexuality.

2) Kindly show me where exactly I accuse Akermanis of
homophobia.

3) I did not accuse him of being gay - I only
suggested that he "may" be, due to his fear of
having gays come out of the closet. It was not an
accusation - merely a question as to the
reasons for his insecurity. It was also done
"tongue-in-cheek" and I even placed a "smile"
at the end of that sentence, as a hint, but
the subtlety was obviously lost on you.

4) Where on this thread did I make personal attacks
on you and Akermanis?

5) Where exactly do I play the victim on this thread and
then attack others?

Kindly don't try to force your reality onto me,
or put words into my posts. When I've reacted to
you in the past it was because of your provocation.
You can't apply one set of rules to yourself and
another to other posters. If you push hard enough
Sir, you will get a reaction. I've always tried
to remain polite with most posters - except in
your case that's often not easy to do. However,
on this thread I have tried to get you to lift
your bar above your usual style of posting.
Ah well, we can only try!

Dear Houellebecq,

I appreciate your taking the trouble of
doing your research.
Please keep it up. It makes for more
interesting discussions.

Well this is a change, I am feeling some sympathy with Antiseptic on this thread. If this post had been instigated someone other than Antiseptic, I wonder if the responses would have been the same.

Most women's change rooms I have attended are of the cubicle variety with shower area and small dressing area with hanging space for clothing. You have complete privacy. My high school was the same. My uni dorm had unisex showers and toilets but we used cubicles and the only thing you had to worry about was guys stealing your towel as a joke (if you were silly enough to hang it over the door).

The only time I experienced different, was at a camp where all the women showered in a large open area - a bit odd given many women also felt uncomfortable being naked in front of other women whether lesbian or not (we were self-conscious teens). Personally it would not matter to me either way, I would just prefer some privacy if I was given a choice.

This is a personal issue, you cannot really argue something is wrong or right, if someone feels uncomfortable they feel uncomfortable, end of story.

I can completely understand why some men might feel uncomfortable showering in front of a homosexual male. This does not make them a homophobe (although statistically some might be).

Houlley has made the most pragmatic suggestion - turn all sporting change rooms into cubicle arrangements. Simple really, everyone has privacy and no-one has cause to feel objectified. We all know how concerned footballers are about sexual harrassment and objectification. :)

Pelican

I guess visiting a nudist beach isn't on your list of things to do.

A lot of our discomfort with communal change rooms stems more from our issues with sexuality and our appearance, than it does hold actual real and threatening consequences.

Someone of the same sex to you looks you over - what is the problem? As a woman, you would be aware of being perved on every day by men, why is it 'worse' when the person doing the perving is of the same sex?

'. I feel like I have just pointed out the bleeding obvious to you. So I wonder what your true agenda was by making such a dumb comment.'

Oh the irony Severin. Keep going with that. It may dawn upon you. Thanks for the entertainment. You're so close!

Houllie

Does your last post mean that you are about to 'out' yourself, as, er, something or other?

Oooooooh, the antici....pation.

well no problems IMHO with the funny ball game but what of those "packing down" with Ian Roberts when he came out closet?

A bit of the old "stem the rose" to use Brokeback Talk