PYNCHME from your link;

Alan Turing, 41, a mathematical genius, master decoder of Nazi ciphers and arguably an inventor of the modern computer, was arrested on homosexuality charges and sentenced to a year of "conversion" hormone treatment. Also accused of subversion, he committed suicide in 1954, apparently by eating a cyanide-laced apple.

So...I guess that's the final persuasive argument eh ? SMART people who have made MAJOR contributions to science and our security justify a more accepting attitude toward homosexual behavior.

Well.. here is the 'next step' for that interesting argument.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8296578.stm

Awwww GEE.. the poor persecuted minister.. *pout*

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/223201_west06.html
Another account of wrongful persecution of a totally "wholesome" gay man.. boggles the mind....right ?

But this one

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Carleton_Gajdusek

Same reasoning..

-Smart
-Nobel Laureate
-Genius..
-Contributed to Science and Medicine.

but... one minor problem. (or...IS IT ? according to you)

AiR, there is absolutely no similarity between houndings of gay men and Gajdusek, apart from the fact that he was gay too. The point with Gadjusek was that he was a paedophile who abused a position of trust to further his lusts. The French minister may or may not be a paedophile, but the trouble he is in has nothing to do with being gay and everything to do with the age of the south-east Asian male prostitutes he slept with. The US situation deals with hypocrisy and also with breach of fiduciary duty.

Your last post doesn't advance the argument at all.

And speaking of advancing the argument, I've just been reading this thread and a wide cross-section of you appears to be doing a good job of abusing each other. I'll just delete posts if this continues from this point on. And hand out suspensions.

Rich pickings!

Pericles,

What if a man secretly dressed as a woman entered the female change rooms. OK by you? Now I'm sure all the woman would be fine with it if they never knew she was really a he. But then if they found out that the she was really a he, the next time this man dressed as a woman wanted to enter the womens showers, I'm sure the cops would be out in force.

CJ,

You must be like a pig in mud with this topic. I know you salivate about using the words homophobia and homoerotic nearly as much as you do using the words racist and biggot.

Although I'm sure anti probably is homophobic, I cant see how anyone has addressed r0berts plain and simple post. Of course because r0bert is polite and genteel, he's no homophobe like the abusive antiseptic. I think really, any man who doesn't kiss another man on request is homophobic. That seems to be the state of play.

Personally, I think it's just a part of life. I used to frequent a gym in Soho where guys used to 'cruise' up and down the showers, I've been in toilet cubicles where guys were obviously jacking off next door and 'tapping their feet', I've been propositioned at gay bars. I've been uncomfortable with some of these situations to varying degrees, and sometimes flattered, and even sometimes curious;-) but imagine being gay and having to be uncomfortable all the time. Let gay people be. As r0bert said, how are you going to screen them form the AFL showers.

But, also, let people who are uncomfortable with their sexuality, and prudish people be too. Why call them homophobes?

My simple solution:

Have the change rooms and showers at sports grounds turned into cubicles.

BTW: Foxy. DO your research. The guy was responding to a rumour some gay magazine or group had decided to offer $100k for the first gay AFL player to come out. That's what started it all.

Pericles and CJ,

But KNOWING changes the group dynamics. That's all the guy is saying. I don't reckon that's homophobic. Also, he seems genuinely concerned about the pitfalls of a player taking the easy money to come out without thinking through the changes that will make to their life. Which I suppose is like telling a Jew in Nazi Germany that Jews aren't popular.

I do think it's underestimating the maturity of team mates though. Sure the dressing room 'vibe' will change, but so what. I never knew the showers was the most important part of the game or the vital ingredient for success in AFL.

septic,

'A footballer who declares as gay is making a statement about his sexuality which is highly inappropriate in the context of a roomful of men who have every right to feel comfortable and relaxed with each other's presence in a vulnerable situation - naked in the shower.'

But, what if a footballer just lives his life in an openly gay way, introducing his boyfriend and showing normal affection in public. That has the same effect as 'declaring' himself gay. Why should a person have to hide who they are just for the comfort of team mates who may imagine he is perving on them? It seems a lot to ask to me.

I've never really understood this coming out business. I've never felt the need to declare myself heterosexual, or felt I was letting other heterosexuals down by not coming out.

Houllie:

>> I've never really understood this coming out business. I've never felt the need to declare myself heterosexual, or felt I was letting other heterosexuals down by not coming out. <<

Because being hetero is the majority, the 'norm' if you like. One is assumed to be heterosexual until proven otherwise. Therefore, Houllie you didn't HAVE to do anything. It takes courage to 'out' oneself as different from the accepted 'norm'. People have been known to lose their jobs, physically attacked or just denigrated for admitting to having less common sexual preferences. I feel like I have just pointed out the bleeding obvious to you. So I wonder what your true agenda was by making such a dumb comment.

Having been hit on in the change room of my local gym, it is no big deal, I just deal with the situation as I would being chatted up by a male in a pub; flattered but not interested.

If homosexuality was understood as a part of the human sexual spectrum, then there would be nothing for the homosexual athlete to fear by admitting his or her sexual preference.