Morgan:"While nobody could possibly know how many gay footballers are currently playing -[...] there are undoubtedly some."

Undoubtedly. But they are a very tiny minority, I suspect. The proportion of footballers is not high even within the general community and it is likely to be much lower within the gay community, which is already only a small minority (about 1.5%) of men, meaning it must be a very tiny portion of the footballing population indeed.

Why should such a timy minority be able to dictate to the overwhelmingly large majority and demand they change their culture? You're supposed to be an anthropologist, this should be interesting.

Pelican:"Accepting current culture, why is there no room for change? All this does is encourage gay men to stay in the closet."

There is no REASON for change that I can see.Gay men can be out or otherwise, as long as they keep it away from the club. That's just the way it is. Some jobs carry prerequisites: priests must be paedophiles, politicians must be liars, footballers must be straight...

Demanding change for its own sake is not reasonable

Anti
"Demanding change for its own sake is not reasonable."

But noone is demanding change for its own sake. There is a reason - the one you raised in relation to privacy.

"Some jobs carry prerequisites: priests must be paedophiles, politicians must be liars, footballers must be straight..."

Well this is where I bail out - this issue is nothing to do with privacy then?

We would all prefer priests not to be pedophiles and politicians not to be liars - are you implying those cultures should not change?

Sexual orientation on the other hand does not determine whether one is suitable for football or any other sport. It is about merit and skill.

Anti,

Keep digging.

I accept your broader point about the treatment of people who say they are uncomfortable being naked with homosexual men and if you notice I have said a few times that the homophobe calls are unfair. I agree it was a 'a bitter and sustained' response.

But, my point still stands.It's unreasonable for someone to have to hide who they are just so you don't feel uncomfortable around them. Own your discomfort. Request a cubicle or grow up. Is it really that scary?

'Football culture is not gay culture. Why must football culture be forced to adopt the mores of gay culture? Is gay culture forced to adopt the mores of traditional football culture? Should it be?'

Nobodys saying he wants to bring a Mardi Gras float to the shower. He just wants to have a shower, and in his life outside football not to have to sneak around like a criminal. He's a person not a culture. He's a person who likes football so ipso facto he is part of the culture.

You really are staring to sound like you see gay people as a tiny bit less than human. What 'mores of gay culture' has football been asked to take on? I'm asking it to make a choice between growing up or cubicle showers.

'The communal shower is part of football culture, it's not "just having a shower" as anyone who's played the game knows. Brendan Fevola said a week or two ago that he felt mildly uncomfortable at the Lions because the players kept their underwear on in the shower. I can see what he means. It's kind of saying "I trust you to play football, but I'm not quite sure whether I can trust you completely". I think the private cubicle thing is taking that even further.'

That really gave me a giggle. I've been in teams that use communal showers, and if someone said that they'd never live it down. Sounds like it's from the mouth of Roy Slaven.

What do you think of this. I think it's quite reasonable...

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/05/21/2906126.htm

Jack Marx was a little less kind, as expected

http://blogs.news.com.au/jackmarxlive/index.php/news/comments/a_reply_to_jason_akermanis/

As Jack says...

That depends entirely upon what particular “fabric” the club is made of. If it’s material so weak as to be destroyed by a single man’s sexual orientation, why not rip it to shreds?

Anti

Are you judging gay men by the behaviour of some straight men?

Walking through the crowds of a bar or night-club to get a round of drinks, losing track of the number of times my bum was pinched; women tolerate a lot of poor behaviour from some men. And YOU are paranoid about being looked at? Sheesh.

Most gays are fully aware that they are in risk of being beaten up if they look at a straight the 'wrong way'.

And please make your mind up: are you advocating cubicles or not? As I previously pointed out privacy does have its advantages for a bit of hanky-panky. As for footballers showering with their jocks on - WTF? After being groped, pinched and had unwanted body parts pressed against me, in such public areas as bars or public transport, you are nothing more than precious. Either get over it or show some empathy for women (in future) who are under constant scrutiny and worse.

Many people judge others by their own behaviour. This may well explain Anti's and other homophobes overreaction to just the thought of sharing a change room with people who might be gay.

anti,

'Gay men can be out or otherwise, as long as they keep it away from the club. That's just the way it is.'

How? Players are under constant media surveillance. Players will know eventually if a gay guy just lives his life like anyone else. So what you are asking is really for gay guys to stay in the closet, because some people cant deal with who they are or find practical solutions to showering after a game.

Just face it, AFL isn't about showering. In NRL the media go into the change rooms to titillate the female (and homosexual) viewers. Let this sacred shower ritual go, the game is bigger than showers.