pelican, "I don't understand why this topic is such a hot potato - the point is if some players feel discomfort at being nude in front of a gay player why cannot they be better accomodated. Mocking someone's need for privacy is as bad as mocking someone for being gay."

Those are my thoughts entirely.

C J Morgan,
That you found what you wanted to find and couldn't find anything that challenged your bigotry comes as no surprise at all, it is just par for the course.

Only a fool would deny that girls' fears of homophobia can contribute to some girls not participating in athletics and sports. Likewise it has affected the number of women in coaching positions, which is most unfortunate given the number of talented women who are forever lost to sports coaching.

It is reprehensible that some with secondary gain in mind would continually beat up 'homoeroticism' in sport thus making it even harder for for gays and lesbians, while at the same time creating more barriers for girls and boys to take up sport.

Shorter Cornflower: "I really meant to say 'homophobia' in women's sport, but I can't bring myself to admit it."

Incidentally, I agree with you that homophobia with respect to women's sport could well be one reason that it is marginalised when compared to men's sport, and could also deter some women from participating. My interest in your alleged discussions about homoeroticism is because I hadn't heard of them before. If there are any articles about it of which you're aware, I'd be genuinely interested in reading them.

But I shan't hold my breath.

C J Morgan

Good, you have 'discovered' something that you couldn't find before.

Now keep that reverse gear engaged and admit that the 'homoerotic' sledging you hurl at male footballers is for secondary gain - exclusively to give you jollies in your parlour game of labelling and baiting other respondents to win attention for yourself. Hiya and high fives for that, eh CJ?

However such sledging does have the harmful effect of spilling across to vilify all sport and all participants. The sledging is always counter-productive and you know it.

Yours is the stupid, malicious name-calling that could easily find homoeroticism in all-boys' or all-girls' schools or in all-boys' or all-girls' sports. Equally you could find homoeroticism in the platonic friendship of boys, men, girls and women. However in this forum you are decidedly reluctant to admit the existence of your favoured subject of homoeroticism in any but male sporting pursuits.

You do it just to stir and get attention, nothing positive or constructive in that. Your slant in this thread is a dead giveaway as ememplified by your silly, conflict provoking statement earlier that, "Men who like to spend time together naked should just assume that some of their peers are gay". As all are aware, the male locker rooms are sparse and make no concessions for comfort or privacy and this is the problem. They are not there to be naked together, as well you know.

I suppose you would assert that the shower and toilet facilities in airport club lounge facilities, or wash-rooms in better hotels must have been designed by 'homophobes' (another commonly used CJ label) because they do offer privacy.

The reasonable solution is for administrators and architects is to think laterally and come up with designs that can offer privacy. It is done in many women's toilets, change facilities and gyms and so it should be.

No need to get cranky, Cornflower. I haven't attacked you personally, and it was you that brought up the subject of homoeroticism in women's sport. While I'm aware of prolific articles that address homoeroticism in men's sport, I'm still not aware of any with respect to women's sport - which is in itself interesting.

That there are well-documented homoerotic aspects of men's sports - particularly with respect to football (at least of the Rugby codes) is inarguable. I didn't make them up, and I don't think that there's necessarily anything negative about them - except in the context of homophobia of the sort expressed by Jason Akermanis. As you know full well, I'm not talking just about men showering together. Other negative manifestations have been said to include such activities as the gang bangs and circle jerks that attracted so much media attention a year or two ago.

My earlier suggestion that "Men who like to spend time together naked should just assume that some of their peers are gay" is simply an acknowledgement that in any group of men, including footballers, at least some of them are likely to be homosexual. Rather than being threatened by that reality, I can't see why footballers can't learn to deal with it like sexually well-adjusted adults do. Houellebecq actually made a good point in that respect.

They've apparently learned that gang bangs and circle jerks aren't a necessary part of the footy ethos, so I'm sure they can get over their apparent homophobia too.

[Deleted for abuse]

Pelican said, "...it would not matter to me either way, I would just prefer some privacy if I was given a choice."

Same here. I never had a problem with shared shower areas unless I had a heavy period. I'd want to be able to wash 'down there' in private, and even with only women present, I'd prefer if they didn't see blood streaming down my legs. It wouldn't make any difference to me at all whether they were lesbians or not.

I find shower blocks and changing rooms the most non-sexual places. Dirty clothes all around you, smelly bodies; sex is the last thing on my mind in a place like that. Apparently, for some (or all?) men the scenery doesn't make much difference.

I think this is just so simple- instead of footballers making a big drama out of showering with homosexuals, puhleasse let them have some cubicles so that the ones who want privacy have that option. Problem solved. Drama over.

I'm sure that in time -give it another 30 years or so- with the zeitgeist, homosexuals and Same Sex Marriage will be much more accepted.