Antiseptic: << Perhaps if there are so many gay men wanting to play football they should start their own clubs? >>

They're already playing football, old son. It's just that some sexually insecure types want to keep them in the closet.

"The private cubicles idea is flawed, since a large part of being in a foorball team is that you have complete trust your teammates. You don't need to worry about putting yourself in a vulnerable position because they will watch your back, so to speak. Private cubicles undermine that to a degree."

I can't agree with that Antiseptic. I understand the concept of trust and cameraderie on the playing field is important...but in the change room you are just having a shower. Private cubicles do the same job. Is it necessary to build on that team trust in the shower room? Why?

Homosexual police officers watch the back of their fellow officers in the course of their duties. Sexual orientation does not diminish a person's duty of care or trust any more or less than in heterosexuals.

Morgan:"They're already playing football"

Are they? Where's your evidence that there are hordes of gay men playing football? I can recall about 2 or 3 high-profile "outings" and there are many hundreds of top-level football players. Commonly, they wait until they've retired to come out.

Pelican:"Homosexual police officers watch the back of their fellow officers in the course of their duties"

Dear me, people have an incredible ability to grasp the wrong stick altogether. I'm not suggesting that homosexual people are in any way incompetent, so please don't fly off at a tangent.

The communal shower is part of football culture, it's not "just having a shower" as anyone who's played the game knows. Brendan Fevola said a week or two ago that he felt mildly uncomfortable at the Lions because the players kept their underwear on in the shower. I can see what he means. It's kind of saying "I trust you to play football, but I'm mot quite sure whether I can trust you completely". I think the private cubicle thing is taking that even further.

In their desperation to twist anything into an anti-gay headline, the Lifesite news people overlooked the fact that Simon Fanshawe is a stand-up comedian, and his tongue-in-cheek film deals with a small bunch of inner-London gay people. Simply not relevant to a discussion about straight men's locker-room anxieties.

>> I prefer to quote from those who can speak from direct experience

I speak from direct experience http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=4796

Anti
I know you are not saying incompetent, but you are the one that raised the issue of privacy in the shower room, that is what this is about.

I'm the first to admit I don't know much about the significance of the locker room shower I thought it was all about the game. Football culture is like any other culture, it is capable of change to accommodate a changing world. I played mixed netball for a while and we were all in it together, we trusted each other and did the best for our team despite the fact we had seperate shower rooms.

Accepting current culture, why is there no room for change? All this does is encourage gay men to stay in the closet.

Antiseptic: << Where's your evidence that there are hordes of gay men playing football? I can recall about 2 or 3 high-profile "outings" and there are many hundreds of top-level football players. Commonly, they wait until they've retired to come out. >>

You seem a bit confused. Who said anything about "hordes"?

While nobody could possibly know how many gay footballers are currently playing - largely because they are pressured to remain in the closet - there are undoubtedly some. You acknowledge this when you say "they wait until they've retired to come out".

Also undoubtedly, there would be many more gay men playing football if it wasn't for its obviously homophobic "culture". Indeed, that's what you're really afraid of, isn't it?