PROXY PROXY.....have a look at those links Pericles dredged up and you will see why they think you are chanelling *BD*

They (and the responses) will also show that you are travelling down a well worn track...which is why, having been where you are, I prefer to focus on things where there is a greater chance of rational responses, and of actually helping the poor buggers who will possibly quite soon wake up to who is really pulling the strongs (strings) of the world.


The best thing about such divergences of opinion is that it makes for colorful and entertaining interaction.. just look at the number of posts for this thread compared to others :)

I'd value your input on some of my newer ones.. have you looked at the Maurice Strong one ? You will find there is a strong overlap between your current focus and what I'm on about there, but in the case of Islam.. you are attacking just the symptom rather than the deeper causality.

We definitely need to have good information out there.. and you are doing a great job for those who are in fact open minded and objective.
But hoping for those qualities in your main adversaries here is, well.. optimistic to say the least. It will however hone your arguments for sure.

You are *experiencing* Marcuse's first paragraph...

http://www.marcuse.org/herbert/pubs/60spubs/65repressivetolerance.htm

In Foxy's case..it seems sincere, Pericles? not so sure..(definitely something going on there he doesn't divulge) CJ? oh.. he is red hot living in that paragraph.. day in day out. Christians have a 'quiet time' each morning.. CJ just reads the next page of Marcuse :)

"Dredged", Boaz?

>>PROXY.....have a look at those links Pericles dredged up and you will see why they think you are chanelling *BD*<<

I was simply pointing out that you have a long history of double standards on this, and no amount of name-changing will disguise that fact.

It is interesting that the knee-jerk response from both of you is to attack the messenger.

Proxy:

>>you have invested too much in your delusions. It is nevertheless interesting to observe the phenomen of the closed mind and the open mouth.<<

Boaz:

>>Pericles crows from the mast of the Titanic... this is what makes you look such a complete dill...you dear folks are irrational, uninformed and lacking understanding, seriously...you chirping from up there on the mast of your sinking ship...<<

I am aware that there isn't a chance that you can be led towards any form of open-minded approach to this topic - your religious bent effectively forbids you from entertaining contrary opinion.

But you will find me hanging around to set you straight on factual issues - which you treat, as you always have, with a cavalier disdain - and to continue to object to the more egregious outpourings of fear and loathing.

The difference between you and Proxy is that he doesn't even pretend to have double standards.

>>My selection of "scriptural gobbets" is no more selective than that of Al Qaeda, et al.<<

Nope, just one standard for Proxy: Al Qaeda's

Your justification for your fear and loathing of Islam is grounded in exactly the same process as that of your target.

We knew all along, of course, but congratulations on finally coming to the same realization yourself..

Posted by Pericles, Wednesday, 26 May 2010 8:43:12 AM
" ... Your justification for your fear and loathing of Islam is grounded in exactly the same process as that of your target. ... "

Indeed, which has always concerned me, though I find it rather interesting, in a morbid kind of way, the manner in which these two poles stemming from the same source are manipulated to bring about the clash of civilisations.

..

I must get a copy of the Satanic Verses:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanic_verses

" ... The subtext to the event is that Muhammad was backing away from his otherwise uncompromising monotheism by saying that these goddesses were real and their intercession effective. The Meccans were overjoyed to hear this and joined Muhammad in ritual prostration at the end of the surah. The Muslim refugees who had fled to Abyssinia heard of the end of persecution and started to return home. ... "

..

" ... The verses are seen as problematic to many Muslims as they are "profoundly heretical because, by allowing for the intercession of the three pagan female deities, they eroded the authority and omnipotence of Allah. But they also hold... damaging implications in regard to the revelation as a whole, for Muhammad’s revelation appears to have been based on his desire to soften the threat to the deities of the people."[11] ... "

So dear *BoazY* from rusty *Dreamy,* why is it that the "nice verses" as you put it, are abrogated by the "Blood Thirsty" ones?

..

I note with interest the split here and your acknowledgment that there is some good in the Islamic faith.

Dear Pericles

You said:

<a long history of double standards on this,>

then

<I am aware that there isn't a chance that you can be led towards any form of open-minded approach to this topic>

In all the warm hearted compassion I can muster... the reason you said those things is because you simply do not understand the mind of a person with faith.. neither the Muslim nor the Christian.

That's why you assert a double standard and claim that I'm not open minded.

Dare I repeat (yes..I will) my broken record statement that you are
a) Not knowledgable about Islam (by your own confession)
b) You seem to have set a record in forgetting (and you pick on me?)
that most of what was posted in the past, relied directly on an "Islamic" opinion... in particular the understanding of 65:4

That is the point of disconnect between us. You say I have a closed mind ? :) If it was not so sad it would be hilarious.

Here is the sequence.

a) I quote a credible and respected "Islamic" opinion on an Islamic issue.
b) You say "I" am closed minded.

That simply does not compute P... honestly... I suppose from your secular atheistic 'liberal progressive' (?) standpoint it might...
but for goodness sake.. you know any magistrate would laugh you out of the courtroom.

I suppose you could say "I select Islamic opinion" to suit my prejudice ? :) oh my..if you do, that would be what I can describe as a 'symptom'.
To say so is not to attack the messenger.. there isn't any message.

I'm not aware of having expressed any 'fear and loathing' type comments about Islam thus far since "re-entry"... but I'm sure you will find one :)
But for the record.. I don't 'fear' Islam, but I do 'loathe' it.
Muslims? they deserve our compassionate expression of the truth spoken in love. (robust love)

Dreamy.... a well considered post indeed.

"There is some good in the Islamic Faith"

Let's subject that to the test of 'objective observation' :)

Surah 23:1-5

1. Successful indeed are the believers.

2. Those who offer their Salât (prayers) with all solemnity and full submissiveness.

3. And those who turn away from Al-Laghw (dirty, false, evil vain talk, falsehood, and all that Allâh has forbidden).

4. And those who pay the Zakât .

5. And those who guard their chastity (i.e. private parts, from illegal sexual acts)

WHO can argue with that ? It's very nice.. noble..and virtuous.

But if we take the above verses literally..as they are clearly intended to be taken..... (agreed Pericles?).. we cannot avoid taking the very next verse seriously and literally also. (I'll let you blokes find that :) and that next verse represents a point of departure from the values most closely associated with the Christian faith and the West. (though with each daily blow of degradation the non Christian West is rapidly descending)

Abrogation. An Important topic.

Major Nidal has a lot to say about it :) and see where it led him?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/gallery/2009/11/10/GA2009111000920.html?sid=ST2009110903704 If you proceed to slide 17 you will see his reason for it.. and that turns out to be a quote from the Quran itself.

I don't wish to push this too hard.. I provide information.. you blokes can consider it.

ALGOREisRICH,
<<I don't wish to push this too hard>>
Push as hard as you can.
Even then it's unlikely you'll make it through those thick bonces.
They don't want to know, because it challenges their bigotry.
Sequential verses?
They'll choose to accept the first verse because it reinforces their prejudices,
while ignoring the second verse because it causes them cognitive dissonance.
Then they'll turn around and accuse you of cherry-picking verses!