I note that not one single text quoted was actually uttered by Jesus Christ or those following his teachings. He never supported such attitudes of nationalism in building the kingdom of God. The texts quoted refer to Nationalist Israel and their survival as a bordered nation among nations. Their nationalist situation for them has not changed - they are still at war.

Jesus said his kingdom is not of the proud nationalist systems of this world - especially note he considered the zealots and their sympathisers as the enemy of God - the Satan - including Peter who was later converted to his teachings. After his incident with using the dagger he was converted to teach Christians to suffer persecution for the sake of the the kingdom - and he was later crucified upside down at his request when persecuted and put to death.

Dear Pericles.. good for the goose, good for the gander.. there you go AGAIN claiming I am tarring all with the same brush.. how many times have you done this now ? I gave up counting ages ago. You pick on my stats, yet you continually misrepresent my own position with monotonous regularity.
My beef is with ISLAM.. and radical Muslims. I do believe that a total halt to Muslim immigration will be better for the country, but that does not imply any hatred for people. Its a social policy matter.
Personal "feelings" as such don't come into that. The only relevant 'feeling' one of concern for the good of the country based on information about a particular group. This is why we have 'proscribed organizations' which are banned. I'm suggesting that this does not go far enough.

I'm surprised that after all this time you seem to revert to entrenched opinions about my views for which you have little basis.
I speak of 'One Nation' etc..and you think I'm a white supremacist, a racist and a Mosely quite in SPITE of what I have actually said.

On this thread, I'm making the point about an organization which is in reality a threat larger than you seem to want to recognize.

I don't know how you feel about Sheikh Faiz Mohammed making grunting sounds like a pig and smiling as he declares all Jews will be turned into pigs and apes and destroyed....but I don't really see much socially redemptive value in that.

Boaz, there is a simple answer.

>>there you go AGAIN claiming I am tarring all with the same brush.. how many times have you done this now ? I gave up counting ages ago.<<

How many times?

Since I only tend to respond to the more egregious examples, I call you to account on far fewer occasions than I would if I were tracking every example. So the cure lies in your hands.

Stop doing it, and I will not be able to draw attention to it.

>>My beef is with ISLAM.. and radical Muslims<<

This is the starting point of your problem, so let me try to help a little.

In common, I suspect, with all posters here, I have no "beef" with Christianity. I see it as a perfectly harmless way for an individual to treat their own insecurities, so is by and large beneficial to mankind.

However, I do have a "beef" with anyone who uses religion - Christianity or any other - as a weapon with which to intimidate, coerce or even murder their fellow-man.

You have chosen this path, and that is what I object to most strongly. At the slightest opportunity you will vilify, demean and otherwise disrespect Islam. You rationalize this as separating the religion from the individual, but that is as naive as saying "I have nothing against Jews, it is Judaism that is the problem."

And quite seriously, you have absolutely no idea how Mosley-ite this is:

>>The only relevant 'feeling' one of concern for the good of the country based on information about a particular group<<

Read, mark, learn and understand. You are potentially a danger to yourself and others, and as with so many well-meaning single-issue fanatics, you are unable to see it.

Hi Pericles.
I have to disagree with your assessement of "I don't have a problem with Jews, its Judaism I don't like" on me.
Although it might take some time, even a few hours, I'm sure I can successfully demonstrate that Christianity and Islam are like chalk and cheeze in regard to religiously sanctioned violence.

The actions of the radicals in that video have their foundation in the Hadith.

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/muslim/001.smt.html
scroll to number 31, 32 and 33 and pls read.

I won't re-hash all I've argued over the years here, because you have a very sympathetic heart for ur fellow man, and this tends to prevent you seeing the 'cutting edge' or the real 'pulse' of Islam. You see it as just another 'religion' and useful I presume, as you also view Christianity.

Bear in mind, this is a political forum. I'm seriously trying to change government policy. Be thankful that I'm arguing it, rather than forcing it as these people tried in Indonesia against some Christians.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WP4CvfnbQaw

How many times have I said "Its the radicals who drive the agenda" ?
Then I've said "The bigger the community of Mulims, the more radicals there will be"

I'd also add, that DUE to the radicals.. who usually get arrested, and then the security forces focus on the Muslim community, self feeding the whole cycle due to an increased feeling of alienation.
But it 'starts' at the heart of Islam itself. If Islam taught 'Love those who persecute you and bless rather than curse" there would be no Jihadists, just as there are no noticable violent Crusaders among Christians communities.
Events in Indonesia (Poso, Sulawisi) did result in some sad retalliation and self defense and even offense, and this cannot be denied, but again, I think close examination will see the work of Islamic radicals at the core of the initial problem. An anthropological study showed a complex web of events, but it boiled down to religious jealousy.

Well Boaz, I would have been surprised if you actually stated that you agreed with me, as opposed to simply writing stuff that proves my point. You claim that you...

>>... have to disagree with your assessement of "I don't have a problem with Jews, its Judaism I don't like" on me.<<

If you disagree, could you explain exactly how this statement of mine above differs from this statement of yours "My beef is with ISLAM.. and radical Muslims".

Unstated, but assumed, is that you have no "beef" with non-radical Muslims, in which case we are simply left with "I don't have a problem with (non-radical) Muslims, it's Islam I don't like"

You must have very finely tuned critical faculties as well as a degree in creative hermeneutics to still be able to discern any vestige of difference between the two statements.

>>Although it might take some time, even a few hours, I'm sure I can successfully demonstrate that Christianity and Islam are like chalk and cheeze in regard to religiously sanctioned violence.<<

First you will have to get past that quote from the Bar-Ilan University website I posted on another thread:

"The Crusaders savagely murdered the Jewish and Moslem inhabitants of Jerusalem. The dimensions of the massacre were so horrific that 'rivers of blood' flowed through the streets and even covered the horses hooves. William of Tyre described the victorious Crusaders 'dripping with blood from head to foot, an ominous sight which bought terror to all who met them'. The Jewish community was locked in the central synagogue and burnt alive. The few thousand survivors, out of a population of 40,000, were sold as slaves at the city gates. When they finished murdering thousands of innocent people the Crusaders gathered at the Church of the Holy Sepulchre to give thanks."

"Religiously sanctioned violence" anyone?

Hi_Pericles...
ok..thanx for giving me the opportunity to further clarify

"My beef is with Islam and radical Muslims, not Muslims in general"..

Simple. "Average" Muslims are cultural. Radical Muslims are Quranic.

Islam is as important to the 'average' muslim as it is to the average nominal Christian. Hence they don't constitute much of a social problem or threat.
Radicals or those who do know and follow their faith with strictness, are definitely a problem, and a growing threat. To see an example of such people, revisit the vid on Indonesian Christians being hassled by the radical Muslims (its in a link above) and note the confrontation between the Muslim and the Christian... the one on one.. with the Muslim grabbing the Christians hand and almost punching him.. after berating him. (When I get the audio back on my PC I'll tell you exactly what that radical said)

The Serbs also obtained the blessing prior to slaughtering the Muslims of Srebriniza, but can you find "Genocide for the enemies of Christ" taught as a doctrine in the New Testament ? (yes..you can find examples of Judgement and general warfare in the old ..I know that)

The extent of my 'Mosely'-ism is to agitate for immigration reform, and to proclaim Christ and the Gospel. There is no point just whacking into Islam alone. But a whack it surely needs, due to the deceptive sugar coating it uses to induce people into its clutches.

I've yet to hear a Muslim evangelist say "Turn to Allah.. and if you turn away again or have an affair.. we will brutally kill you" but hey..that is the concensus of the Muslims in Sharia for apostates and various other offenses such as simply insulting the prophet.

http://www.apostatesofislam.com/media/stoning.htm#video
(strong stomach required)

No matter what you think... remember one thing..this ..is Iran..TODAY.. and it is also strict Islam..TODAY.. not 2000 yrs ago.
This IS the Sharia law in action. Maybe you were enjoying a nice cuppa at the time this was happening..and were not even aware of it.
No blame there.. just illustrates how remote it 'seems' to us.