Yabby,

Losing significance? It seems to be in the news every day and triggering off countless forums. They might not get the facts right but they get the name right. Isn't that the important thing?

Oliver,

Bring on the legislation if to root out any Bishops who protect such priests. However I don't see the point. There is no reason to think that Bishops these days will dare violate Church policy and police these days take action. In addition to the other things I mentioned earlier to make it easier to sweep the filth in the Murphy case (where the BBC claimed that the Pope was covering up) he waived rights under the limitation period and had Murphy prosecuted anyway. Thus I don't think the Pope will have a problem that approach if it could help further and given the committment to zero tolerance and transparency the Church would probably support it.

pelican,

"In any other sphere those who aid and abet child molesters are subject to the criminal justice system, it should be no different for the Church. And particularly since some in the theist camp continue to hold themsleves up to a higher moral calling."

Police these days are happy to prosecute the clergy. There could be some difficulties as most of the clergy involved are in jail or dead. The problem is that a crime has to be committed other than in the imagination of those swallowing media sensationalism.

In the meantime paedophiles will be raping children elsewhere confident that all the attention is given to actions in the Catholic Church almost exclusively decades into last century and noone is looking for them.

The only losers are victims. The Church gets lots of free publicity which will guarantee its significance, the media can just keep digging further and further back last century to get stories, people who hate Catholics can condemn us and Catholics can defend the Church. Everyone wins out except the victims particularly those currently getting molested wherever that might be happening.

'Leading atheists Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens seek Pope's arrest'

so so funny from the god deniers who have any basis for determining what is right from wrong. It shows itself in their amoral behaviour. No doubt they will soon be trying to employ Tiger as their family spokesperson. When anyone looks at a 13 year old naked girl they are perverts. When leftist academics view it is considered art despite their atrocious record with any sort of morality.

*It seems to be in the news every day and triggering off countless forums.*

Much the same is achieved by Paris Hilton!

I think you are confusing publicity with significance.

Yes the RCC gets lots of publicity, about people leaving the
church and about losing any shred of credibility which they
once had.

There is an interesting trend emerging from all this "pope shields molestors" malarkey.

Apologists for the church are starting to get behind a movement whose motto is "hey, why are you picking on us?"

mjbp, you are obviously a fully signed-up member.

>>Do you seriously believe that only the Catholic Church did that [protected serial sexual abusers from prosecution] back then? That is just one step away from thinking that most paedophiles are priests<<

Can you suggest any other group that acted in the same way, mjbp?

No-one, as far as I am aware, has suggested that most paedophiles are priests, nor that most priests are paedophiles. But most people are concerned that the church does not hide the crimes within its hierarchy.

>>Then the head could change the rules to make it easier to immediately defrock priests<<

It's not de-frocking that is at issue here. It's the reluctance to surrender to the legal system that the rest of us support.

Add to this the neat side-step...

>>There is no reason to think that Bishops these days will dare violate Church policy and police these days take action<<

"These days", the eyes of the world are upon them. Unlike in previous times, where the idea that a priest actually held to a higher moral philosophy, was widely accepted.

"These days", I suspect that there are far more children prepared to tell their parents that the priest fiddled with them. Unlike in previous times, when their word against that of a priest would be less heeded.

Times have changed, mjbp. If you cannot accept that concealing wrongdoings of this nature is reprehensible, then you are always going to be part of the problem.

Sure, its good to see that the church itself recognizes the problem, and is taking steps to ensure the practices don't continue.

But that does not absolve them from i) admitting to their previous criminality and ii) facing the music for it.

Yabby,

Paris seems to be doing better than she should be.

Pericles,

"Apologists for the church are starting to get behind a movement whose motto is "hey, why are you picking on us?"

I wonder if Proxy is a Catholic. Are the authors of the article that Foxy linked to all Catholic. I'm just pointing out the distinguishing characteristic. As Suzeonline has pointed out Bishops deserve more condemnation due to their role but the same could be said about the psychiatrists who were relied upon by the Bishops.

"Can you suggest any other group that acted in the same way, mjbp?"

I'm sure a lot did in those days. Back then image was prioritised. Now transparency is seen as more important. Anyway an example:
http://www.newoxfordreview.org/article.jsp?did=1005-clifford
I'll add on to the bit that can't be read without paying in the next post.

"But most people are concerned that the church does not hide the crimes within its hierarchy."

But concerns needed to be grounded. What other organisation has gone to so much trouble to root out the problem?

"It's not de-frocking that is at issue here. It's the reluctance to surrender to the legal system that the rest of us support."

I'd suggest it is a contributing issue. However all bases are covered and as you said children molested by Catholic priests would be prepared to tell their parents so the zero tolerance policy may be moot.

"These days", the eyes of the world are upon them. Unlike in previous times, where the idea that a priest actually held to a higher moral philosophy, was widely accepted."

True. And to a degree some media attention to raise awareness may have been a blessing for the Church. However when it became a sport and the organisation was singled out it isn't such a positive.

"Times have changed, mjbp. If you cannot accept that concealing wrongdoings of this nature is reprehensible, then you are always going to be part of the problem."

I don't accept it I am just trying to make the point that times have changed particularly within the Church.