Hi KMB/Herman :)

Proxy

>> You just want to quarantine debate on your own narrow terms. <<

WTF?

This debate, as Suze has patiently pointed out to you, is about "Child Sex Abuse and the Catholic Church".

I agree with Suze that if you wish to discuss abuse of children in general then you are free to do so on a topic of your own creation.

While I'm on a roll:

we are unique

I am sorry to hear of your personal abusive treatment as a young child.

However, that there may or may not be a vengeful god is an open question.

We urgently require to attend to child abuse in the here and now. And I suspect any reasonable deity would agree.

PAX

Severin: No-one on the OLO Forum Severin has disputed otherwise [myself included as a catholic] the fact that child abuse in the catholic church is being addressed and should be addressed.

Belly: I have stated no-where that I do not support investigation of the catholic church crimes [ie paedophiles detected and dealt with]. If you knew me personally, you would not have queried this.

Facts: It takes years for abuse victims to come forward and come to terms with abuse, some 20 yrs later in their adult lives. By this time, the abuser has either died or retired. Fellow priests and the congregations totally unaware of the crimes. Not all crimes are known by other people. For instance, look at how Ivan Milat got away with so many murders for a long time recommitting. My point being Belly that few if any people aware of the criminal behaviour in a paedophile or murderer until it is too late. This is the tragedy and frustration that exists for many people victims included. Far too painful at a young age to come forward and express to another their experience. Yes, it would be wonderful if children and adults could bring it all out in the open when it happens [ie the year it occurs] but in reality this does not occur. Which in turn, of course, led to innocent support to paedophiles and their future crimes.

Having given profound thought on this issue I wish to also mention some words my mother uttered to me growing up along these lines [a wise woman during her life].

"watch your behaviour and treatment of others along with looking at your own family and extended family members".

Belly you and Severin are targetting and crucifying the catholic church and catholic church people yet one never knows if their own family member may partake in criminal behaviour paedophilia rape and other lesser crimes. Some of these criminals die; others not.

People need to look at their own families and interact closely with them; priests and the non-religious.

Never be too quick to condemn using generalisations regarding the catholic church and its congregation. For one may find in their lives down the track a criminal in their own family.

Have seen in many people that those who swiftly judge via generalisations made about certain groups or individual people are shocked at a later date when one of their own family members or extended family members are paedophiles/rapists criminals.

Opiniated2,

“Suffer” in context with the first century mendicant, Jesus, and “suffer little children” means to allow proceed without hindrance. It is the archaic use of the word which is used in the Bible.

Mjpb,

“psychiatrists don’t clam to cure paedophilia..”

A very good point: Transferring the priest/brother to a new parish/school will not work.

Belly,

"Far too crimes for too often for too long."

From the persecution of the pagans form Constantine, through the Crusades, bleeding children to death for blood tranfusions for the Pope, the witch and monkey trials, child bashings by nuns and paedophilia; across cities, across countries and across continents.

What I find hard to understand is why good people who believe in the civil behaviours of emphasised in the ten commandments and the values posited by a teacher during Sermon on the Mount, would have a bar of the Pauline-Constantine Church, its history and leagacy. If they wish to believe, why not follow the teachings of Jesus, rather the residual institution of the Holy Roman Empire?


All,

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8612457.stm

Should Australia make its displeasure known through diplomatic channels, if it shown that Benedict did protect the church/clergy? I beleive we should. If the allegations were found to be true, having Australia recall Tim Fisher with the view of downgrading the Vatican’s full embassy would surely gain international attention.

The Pope could turn himself in Californian authorities to make secular amends and show spiritual contrition and "substutionary ransom" for the Sins of the Church (Something a true Vicar of Christ might do). Of course, that would never happen, even if he was guilty of a cover-up.

severin,

"WTF?
This debate, as Suze has patiently pointed out to you,
is about "Child Sex Abuse and the Catholic Church"."

Why are we not surprised to find that your "WTF'ing" contradicts your own earlier contribution:

"Excellent topic - particularly at a time of self congratulation by the Catholic Church and Christianity in general."
Christianity in general?
I thought this topic was about the Catholic Church.
If it's valid for you to broaden the scope to non-Catholic religions,
why can't I broaden the scope to include other religions?

“paedophiles will align themselves in organisations that give them access to children be it religion, teaching, scouting, sports or other venues where children congregate.”
Your comment puts an interesting perspective on the current fight in the USA where homosexual activists are trying all manner of strategies to circumvent a Supreme Court ruling which determined that the Boy Scouts could legally exclude homosexuals from becoming Scout Leaders.
Anyhow, why did you bring it up?
What is the direct connection between these other organisations and "Child Sex Abuse and the Catholic Church"?

Yet again...
“However this hypocrisy extends into other Christian denominations, Father Peter Jensen used his Easter address this year to condemn people for not believing in god”
What do other Christian denominations condemning people for not believing in God have to do with "Child Sex Abuse and the Catholic Church".

I'm sorry, I seem to have strayed off-topic again.