Robert,

It just occurred to me that the options being debated are God loving individuals who were genuinely prepared to sacrifice even their sex life to serve God and help people who were driven by sexual desire to something unnatural or an opportunistic wolf in sheeps clothing who sees the priesthood of the 60s as a means to an end. Hopefully that is an acceptable description of the dichotomy. Even if it isn't I think I can make a point.

If those are the options then wouldn't the God loving individual with unusual and intense desires adopt less gravely sinful options such as masturbation rather than interfering with young children just because they are there? Many married people have intensely adulterous feelings but fail to act on them as a result of their own personal views on morality. It just seems you can't have it both ways.

It is one thing to get a desire but we aren't talking prisoners who may have been locked up for rape here (and it usually takes something dramatic to get locked up). These were priests. Raping whoever you want to isn't a moral option from that belief system. Even many prisoners look down on those who rape kids.

Of the competing theories doesn't the behaviours, particularly the repetition, fit better with the predator one?

mjpb,

Nope I'm not a protestant fundy......I believe in the rule of law...and the punishment of those who break those laws.

Are you a Catholic fundy?...lol

Do you work for the Catholic Church in any way, shape or form?

Is the problem with institutions like the Catholic Church that they are only answerable to GOD and are therefore above the law? Is this Biblical?

I have more Catholic friends than protestant friends!

You stated you could answer all my other questions... well go on then.

For instance if what http://brokenrites.alphalink.com.au/ says is true, How did Cardinal Pell become a Cardinal? Why wasn't the Christian, love, charity and compassion given to the victims?

It alleges "Catholic priest Gerald Ridsdale (left) walks to court, accompanied by his support person (Bishop George Pell, then an auxiliary bishop in Melbourne), when Father Ridsdale was pleading guilty to his first batch of criminal charges in May 1993.

But no bishop accompanied the victims, who felt deserted by the church hierarchy."

How can this be, where's the support for the victims? I wonder what Jesus would think of Pell's actions and promotions that followed?

This list http://brokenrites.alphalink.com.au/nletter/bccrime.html gives the names of 117 Catholic priests, religious brothers and seminarians who have been sentenced in Australian courts in Broken Rites cases.

The questions that needs to be asked are....what did the organisations do?

Have a read for yourself of this case http://brokenrites.alphalink.com.au/nletter/page137-baker.html

But has this Pope got a record for poor decision making?

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gpAv-XCnRkh9A6YycUSb9_omKvuw

Do the Popes have a good record?

http://www.ftarchives.net/foote/crimes/c7.htm

or the Catholic view

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12272b.htm

So please feel free to answer my questions afterall you said "I can answer the question but is this the forum?" Yep this forum is fine.

How many times has the Catholic Church reported one of it's members directly to the Police?...OR Is that the job of the victims?

and to "”What should happen to the Pope if what is alleged in the above articles is true?”

You replied "I think that many mistruths can be established."

On both sides or just the victims? You didn't answer the question...lol

mjpb, "but does that extend to paedophilia?" - again I have not saved the link but I did read an interesting piece some time back on the types of paedophiles. The piece described two main types, those who had a strong orientation towards children and opportunistic abusers.

The former is primarily sexually attracted to children with little or no sexual interest in adults of either gender, the later uses children because they can be an easy target.

My guess is that a lot of "celibate" people do use safer option such as masturbation to try and meet their sexual needs. I also think that you can have it both ways, many married people chose not to act on adulterous feelings but some do. We all have different make up's, different backgrounds and different life experiences and people will choose differently with what is nominally the same set of circumstances.

Sexual abuse is a long step from generally agreed christian values but so to are other activities and choices undertaken by some christian's (and likewise for followers of pretty much any other value system).

R0bert

Opionated2,

I believe in the rule of law and punishment for those who break the law but I wouldn't jump into an argument with a Mufti about the subtleties of Islamic scriptures just because I thought that some Islamic clerics were behaving badly.

You have brought up a whole lot of stuff from an organisation that states it was formed by abuse victims who have apparently been a little put off the Catholic Church as an understandable reaction. I presume you want some type of response to that. However you also refer to the question that I didn't answer in spite of saying that I could (and presumably the related questions/argument). I'll start with the earlier stuff:

Where in the Bible did Jesus allow the creation of the confessional?

Like most stuff about Jesus and the Church He set up the surprising bits are prefigured in the Old Testament. Take Exodus 32.30. It gives an example of vicarious atonement. Then there is Numbers 14:19-23 where God told Moses that other people were forgiven because Moses had prayed that they be forgiven. Does the Bible place Moses in between man and God by your reckoning? The of course there is Numbers 16:46-48 where on Moses' direction Aaron made atonement for other people. Then you get to the New Testament Matthew 16:19 where Jesus gives the first Pope the keys and Matthew 18:18 "whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in Heaven" or perhaps totally on point John 20:23 "If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven" I note that both of the latter two were said to all the Apostles not just the Pope. The apostles have successors. The Apostle Paul even lays down requirements for Bishops.

I think the clump of confessional questions is already answered.

Re: Mark 2:10 I refer you to the passage in John I refer to above.

"If the confessional replaces GOD ...?"

It doesn't replace God. It is done with God's authority in the Church where God is worshipped.

mjpb,

The scripture you quote refers to absolution methinks, not directly to Confession as the means to have a sins forgiven. I think it was Robin Lane Fox, who claims confession to liked with martydom. Sinners beleived that martyrs were well placed to intercede.

I suspect Kinsey was "glorified" because he reported on taboo topics. I studied three years of psych. in the 1970s. He was hardly mentioned and he was not studied for examination. The Hite Report into human sexuality is produced every now and then, with media taking it up. Philp Zimbardo, reworked one Hite Report with true academic methodological rigour and came up with totally different results.

I recall the Kinsey movie but unsure whether watched it through. Sometimes, I give Law and Order SUV the flick too. A little too yuk for me.

(My three post-grad. degrees are in business studies and culture studies. I don't practice as a psychologist.)

Could the inordinate focus by the media on child sex abuse and the Catholic church have anything to do with the fact that the media and the church are ideological enemies on most matters?
As exemplified by Obama's sanctification and Palin's demonisation during the US presidential elections, the media seems intent on destroying anybody or anything that doesn't lean as far left as they do.