Sorry, thanks Foxy, that's pretty much how I take it all too.

Foxy

The point I am making is that those who don't have a healthy fear of God are more likely to be able to commit heinous deeds because they are foolish enough not to listen to their conscience. They are silly enough to convince themselves that they won't have to face their Maker one day. When you can't even admit that killing the unborn is murder it just shows how blind and hard hearted people can be.

Most of society have no problem condemning child abuse. This is not possible without making a judgement that it is vile. By your understanding we should not judge this vile act.

Despite the way you and Belly judge my motives I would much prefer to see you, Belly and all people finding forgiveness rather than judgement for your sin.

The problem for many is that they can't find forgiveness because they can't even admit fornication, lying, abortion or adultery is even wrong.

I must say you have a poor understanding of Jesus words that you quote.

I would like to question your question a little, StG.

>>on this website there's an ACTIVE effort by many to attempt to dismiss the "existence" of "God"<<

True. But that doesn't necessarily mean they wish to deny others the right to believe.

Apart from a few blowhards who make a living out of controversy, I am hard pressed to think of any atheist who wishes to "rid the world of religion".

All the atheists of my acquaintance recognize the importance that religious people place in their faith. Where we express concern is primarily when religion creates hatred.

Usually towards another religion.

At that point we occasionally suggest politely that the world would be a safer place without it.

But to return to your question, but without the baggage of what atheists may or may not wish.

A world without religion is quite difficult to envisage, given its long history, and the high percentage of people with a religious bent. Nevertheless, in order to get an idea of what life would be like in a fully atheist world, it might be instructive to look - not at the end result on its own - but the journey society would take in order to get there.

Which would be, quite simply, through a process of individual, rather than collective, decisions. Given that religion - as you point out - thrives in adversity, a "thou shalt not" command would not have the slightest effect.

But, as people decide, on an individual basis, that they are perfectly able to behave themselves without the threat of hellfire, the world will gradually leave those belief systems behind. The natural requirements for a society to be cohesive will ensure that villains continue to be punished, and goodness rewarded.

It may well reach a tipping-point along the way, where religion itself is seen as a residual threat to social harmony - but again, this is most likely to take the form where religions fight amongst themselves and with each other, as they have always done.

I won't see the final outcome myself. But it will happen.

Runner

Actions are more important than beliefs.

Your words are meaningless and you do not care one jot for Foxy or Belly's well-being if you believe they would spend eternity in hell simply for not holding the same beliefs as you.

StG

Consider the following, please:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTpJ8PGT2yY&feature=SeriesPlayList&p=4C9012DF955634EA

Severin, you write

'Your words are meaningless and you do not care one jot for Foxy or Belly's well-being if you believe they would spend eternity in hell simply for not holding the same beliefs as you.'

Your thinking is the wrong way around. If I knew a building was about to burn down and said or did nothing about it I would be liable for the people killed. If I cared nothing about the people I would shut up.

Your video as usual tries to paint God as the evil One and humans as the victim. The fact that God did do something by sending His Son to die for your corruption and my corruption shows His love and mercy. You have the opportunity to respond to the greatest act of love in history or remain in self denial and your own self righteousness and reject God's mercy.

You cannot separate actions from belief. The killing of the unborn in masses has come about by stinking beliefs (what we are killing in not a person). A persons beliefs nearly always ends in actions in line with your beliefs. If you believe you have a responsibility to the poor then you will act. If you believe that pornography is okay then you will watch it. People over a period of time nearly always act out their beliefs.

Dear runner,

I don't make assumptions about other people -
and I certainly don't think that my way is
the right way and that people who think
differently to me or disagree with me are
bad. Your inability to analyze things perplexes
me - as does your inability to be tolerant,
compassionate, and understanding - to love
your neighbour as yourself. You accuse me of
all sorts of things yet you don't know me.

You condemn people that (like me) - people you
don't even know. It isn't your job to condemn -
for God condemns no one. He heals through
forgiveness and asks that you do likewise.

You tell me that I know nothing of the teachings
that I quoted to you - it seems to me that you're
the one who lacks understanding.

People find their God in "Church" or "Abraham" or
"Personal honesty." But no one has the right to say
that he has defined and comprehended God, nor that any
other person was certainly without God's forgiving love.

God has no boundaries, and His love cannot be limited by
the blindness or egotism of frightened men - such as
yourself.