"Obedience that is based on fear of punishment, this-worldly or otherworldly, is not really goodness, it is merely cowardice."

I feel sorry for you godbotherers living your lives in fear.
I dont commit crimes, hurt other people or lie and be dishonest because I am fearful of consequences but because I think that honesty, caring, empathy and courtesy are the best way to live and progress society. I actually really believe in "do unto others" and other like platitudes spouted by the faithful. Spouted mindlessly and vacuously while at the same time they practice their bigotry, intolerance and viciousness towards those they see as sinners, heathens, apostates and unbelievers.

I think you may be guilty of too-narrow thinking here, StG. You focus on one specific aspect of religion - concern over death - at the expense of a broader view of why people might be religious.

My own current favourite theory is that religion is an evolutionary trait that so far, has been beneficial to communities.

Dr David Wilson of Binghamton University in New York sees a kind of "group benefit" to the cohesion that religious observance provides.

He notes also that it is the least secure societies that tend to be most fundamentalist - regardless of the religion in question. He suggests this is to be expected where sticking to the rules is a critical component of the security earned from membership of the group.

There is also compelling research that highlights the evolutionary benefit, at an individual level, of rigid conformance to a set of rules, for example, around reproduction. Jason Slone of Webster University in St Louis discerns that people guided by religion can be viewed as more likely to provide stable parenting than those who are not. (Note, it is only the perception that matters here!)

Your question, which boils down to "is society better off with or without a fear of the afterlife", is only one small corner of the discussion.

As such, it can also lead to some strange conclusions.

Does the very existence of an afterlife (with or without those 72 virgins) promote good behaviour in the über-devout Islamist? Or is it a dangerous distraction from the act of living a full and blameless life?

And, fascinating though the topic is, I do object somewhat to your views on atheism.

>>what would happen if these Atheists got their way and NO ONE had a fear of the after life<<

"If Atheists got their way?"

This atheist, for one, couldn't give a flying fig whether you fear an afterlife or not. I reached my views without the aid of propaganda or group-think, and I confidently expect, as the evolutionary benefit reduces, future generations will do the same.

In the meantime, enjoy your fear.

Dear StG,

I believe we've got a conscience for a reason.
And, as I've written in the past - I try to
follow my conscience, demand meaning and relevance
from my Church, and I won't permit my God to be
reduced to empty ritual and all-absorbing law.
I'm a Catholic - but probably not a very good one.
I try not to judge people - be they religious
or not. My philosophy is - "Live and let live!"
As long as you're not hurting anyone...
And I certainly wouldn't dream of trying to
convert anyone. I think faith and belief is such
a private matter.

I think what's important is the content of our hearts
and minds (or what's often described as character).
If we respect each other, and have a good sense of
fair play - chances are we're decent human beings.

I don't fear hell because I can't fathom it.
I don't seek heaven because it doesn't offer an
image I can grasp. I simply struggle along
my life's path.

Religion in all it's forms is just is a manifestation of a fear of death. Under all the window-dressing, dogma and ritual, it's really nothing more than that. Without the chance of a big payoff at the end, there's simply no point.

Good and bad deeds are decided on the basis of "what's in it for me", not some higher moral purpose.

The day an athiest straps a bomb to himself and blows up innocent people while waving a copy of Darwin's "Origin of Species" is the day I'll care about what bigots - religious or otherwise - believe.

Very easy to see the result of those who believe in their own self righteousness (ie million s of murdered unborn children). No wonder God puts limits on the depravity of mankind. Just seeing the fruit of god deniers should be enough to convince anyone who can think of the stupidity of denying their Creator. And oh yes they always have a pathetic excuse to justify their actions.

Dear runner,

How will your God judge your comments in the
previous post?

"Judge not ...."

and

"Love thy neighbour..."

"Do unto others..."

Shouldn't you be practicing - what is being preached?