I'm with Arjay. A lot of good energy will come out of the noble hope he's expressed. I disagree with Belly about who causes political parties to be the way they are, even though I'll admit that politicians have gone on the record occasionally (mostly on leaving office) resignedly confessing that the voters taught them to be what they are or they won't get elected. Hip pocket voting nerve. I've run for parliament twice, and I learned that the hard way, and had to adjust my view of it all without becoming cynical or one of the lads guaranteed of pre-selection.

The work to be done is to get debate going, and to air views that go against the tripe we get indoctrinated with - post-modernist waffle and 'money-and-security-mean-everything' rot. In other words, to dismantle the constipated materialistic society we've glued together to represent very little when push comes to shove. We need a broad broom in education and to put the humanities back on top of the garbage being taught in universities in a dumbed-down Australia.

Belly's 'revelation' is what I call the bleedin' obvious. What's not obvious is how a decent party can be put on legs, as needs to happen badly if we're to advance as a civilisation. Bob Menzies managed it, if we want a local example that was only slightly flawed. Don Chipp did it, and it was only flawed later by egos on the rampage, which could have been prevented if a real leader had presented in time. Chavez is doing alright now in Venezuela after the plutocrats got him out of office temporarily - illegally - until the people jacked up right across the country. The Swedes always get it right because they aren't weighted-down by cynics who know how to whine but have nothing constructive to say.

Go for it, Arjay. We need more Australians like you. You actually have a vision (are you sure you're one of us?)

CJ

I am constantly amused - and sometimes bemused - by the examples used by posters here to support their positions.

So, thank you Calamity James, for your contribution to my early afternoon chuckle.

>>What's not obvious is how a decent party can be put on legs... Bob Menzies managed it... Don Chipp did it... Chavez is doing alright now in Venezuela after the plutocrats got him out of office temporarily - illegally... Swedes always get it right<<

Wow, what a mixture. You certainly cannot be accused of blind Party loyalty, CJ.

But seriously. However much I agree - and I most certainly do - that a new approach to politics is vitally necessary for our long-term survival, your choice of poster-children sends out nothing but confusing signals.

Menzies formed a party that was viable only in a Coalition. The Liberal vote only ever exceeded the Labor vote on two occasions - out of a possible (Reps and Senate) twenty-nine occasions. He is remembered, if at all, for his visceral anti-communism.

Chipp formed a party that actually could have made a difference.

But didn't.

The Democrats held the balance of power in the Senate for twenty-five years, during which time they had a negligible impact on the passing or withholding of key big-Party legislation.

What a wasted opportunity.

Chavez - now that's a crack-up.

Chavez is a dictator, pure and simple, ruling by presidential decree.

"Within hours of a presidential decree on January 8th [2010] devaluing the currency by up to 50%, long queues formed outside household-appliance shops in Caracas"

http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story_id=15287355

Remember, CJ, you were talking about "how a decent party can be put on legs".

And Sweden is actually a country, not a political party.

Just thought I'd mention it.

It makes my day to find that I've got a laugh somewhere.
It's something only political parties can normally manage
but at our great expense. By legs I mean up and running
according to its original objectives. Do you honestly see
Labor as a worker's party any more? Why the Lierals are called
that I don't know when Conservative is the truth of its advertising.
I was Bob Menzies preferred waiter at the Canberra Rex. He was
a good bloke, and his politics was genuinely middle of the road.
Labor are a bit like rats only there are some things rats won't do.

Sweden is the world's archetypal socialist state. It works well.
They're disgusted by our health system, as I am. The party that
managed that is the Swedish Socialists, of course. I thought it
was obvious. Their education system makes ours look like an
amateur production. The Swedes chucked out their old Constitution
about sixteen years ago and started from scratch. Can you imagine
that happening here? Well, Perry lad, it's the lack of education
here that prevents such an adult communal act. Still want to laugh
about Sweden?

Chavez did a Kiwi by telling the Yanks where to get off. Gutless
Australia gets down on padded knees to lick their boots and other
parts. Chavez's party has bigger testicles than our shabby bunch.
It, not Chavez, threw off the dictatorship you incorrectly attributed
to him. It was the people who got him back into power after the
pro-Yank plutocrat coup. Chavez dictator? Do you only read Yank papers?

If we got a Chavez here I wouldn't just vote for him I'd join him.
All of our ex-PMs complain that when you get into the big chair you
can't do anything more than a backbencher (which is suck up to the
real people who run Australia). We're in big trouble, and the luck
has run out. Running out of oil will give us Hell shortly, but not
nearly as much as our running out of luck.

Walk with me arjay and hear what I say.
I never once questioned your right to think as you will.
I often however do say you are not even near mainstream in your thoughts.
Your new fan should read your print history before getting in your harness team.
Do you understand basic politics?
That todays ALP is not in any way the one that started this party?
That Liberals are no longer the party that Menzies started.
Both have evolved, had conservatives not swallowed up policy's of one nation and sabotaged it, it may have been a third, always last, party, nationals, greens all have only to win support to be that party.
Even to become one of the two who always will be in the final say the ones to rule.
Threads are getting less linked to reality every day, politically illiterate and such, your thoughts all we need is another way.
We , you and I walk into party meetings and can become ministers, reality is you will never be happy but mate,,,,the sky is not falling

Calamity James thanks for the accolades but myself like most are just a small cog in the machine.You served Mezines a drink,well I served M Fraser one when he was PM.He was and is a very arrogrant man.I have no time for him.

Whether you like or hate Monckton is irrelevant.Without him we would not have know of the secret agenda for a dictorial world govt.Had Monckton not warned us and had climategate not happened,we and the US would be slaves to this Green communist world Govt.It is not over yet,they are still pushing for carbon taxes and derivatives.Note that the Green movement is heavily financed by the corporates.Sections of the corportate world do not care whether it is a communist Govt or facist.They will still make money via socialised medicine since the tax payer is forced to buy more than they need via so called free medical.Socialist medicine is good for the pharmaceutical companies.

There is an internet underground fighting for freedom.Monckton has done extensive interviews with Alex Jones in the USA, has close contacts with Alan Jones here.I notice that A Jones' attitude change a lot in the last 12 mnths.Monckton may be a good catalyst to spark off a new political movement that unites all these various movements.Monckton is very articulate and good on his feet.It does not mean he will be some grand leader.The important part will be the formulating of the constitution.

Many people on this site cannot work me out.I'm a great fan of John Pilger because he is one of the few journos that has the courage to speak the truth.I don't agree with his socialists views but he believes in freedom and has integrity.

I probably won't live long enough to see it happen,but I live in hope that our children will see a fairer system evolve.

I'm not sure we're on the same page, Calamity James.

>>I was Bob Menzies preferred waiter at the Canberra Rex. He was
a good bloke, and his politics was genuinely middle of the road.<<

You said you were looking for a Party that is "up and running according to its original objectives." Are the Liberals still "middle of the road", like their founder?

>>Sweden is the world's archetypal socialist state. It works well.<<

There are seven political parties in the Riksdag. Which of those did you have in mind as a model?

>>Still want to laugh about Sweden?<<

I certainly have been there often enough to know that I would prefer to live here. Personal tax rates through the roof - about 60% higher than Australia's. And over ten bucks for a glass of beer? Not for me.

Any President who abolishes the limits on his term of office is a dictator. Chavez did just that last year. And now rules by personal decree.

You may admire his cojones as much as you like. But his actions have little to do with the "political party" he set up in order to get elected.

>>If we got a Chavez here I wouldn't just vote for him I'd join him.<<

I'm sure he'd enjoy adding another sycophant to the team.

As I said before, the politicians/Parties you used to support your "if only we could be like them" position are completely inconsistent.

They seem more about hero-worship than anything else.