Foxy's singling out of Islamic fundamentalism signifies progress as it is tacit acknowledgement
that Islam poses a special problem.
Then along comes examinator:
"Islamic fundamentalists are no more violence prone than the Amish
and anyway it's all the West's fault"
and we're back to square one.
examinators reasoning:
a. Deaths by old age being the most numerous should therefore be the most newsworthy.
b. Terrorist acts should not be reported because they cause terrorist acts.
c. Islamic violence is no more violent than Israeli violence, just different in that they deliberately targer innocent civilians.
d. Dispossessed, younger gen Muslims frustrated with their lot blow up Western airliners just like dispossessed younger gen Hindus don't.
e. Osama bin Laden (multimillionare), Major Nidal Hasan, (psychiatrist), Abdulmutallab (engineering student son of multi-millionaire businessman) act out their frustration as "a consequence of being suppressed, poverty and dominated by western supported dictators."
With examinator it's one step forward, three steps backward.
examinator can't seem to comprehend the difference between criminal gangs in "catholic countries" killing each other and Islamic fundamentalists trying to take down plane loads of civilians while claiming justification from their Islamic faith.
They each committed crimes didn't they, therefore they're the same.
While one doesn't want to give up on anyone,
sad to say,
examinator is a hopeless case.

Ironically, Runner has probably outlined the reason why:

Puritanical Islamists in past centuries would not have ever experienced Western culture as closely and intensely as they have now- in the past, it was entirely news by word and mouth- and only REALLY serious news- like a crusade ever drew many swords.

These days every war is brought in graphic detail to their TV sets- to which they would feel 'part of', and of course being bombarded with images that they would consider decadent and dangerous- just as readily if a bunch of strippers broke into their house and put on a free show.

I imagine this would increase paranoia and feeling of being attacked.

Again- I believe we should simply lay off these countries and leave them to their own devices so long as they aren't threatening us- publicly declare a neutral stance in the Israel/Palestine conflict (as we do bugger all to help Israel already they have nothing to lose), as a start- along with the proposals I mentioned earlier.

Mikk,

The difference is made between Islam as an ideology (whose desired goal is to conquer the world through terrorism and impose shariah law) and Muslims (99% of whom are born into the "religion").

Certain death (in some Islamic countries) awaits Muslim who leave Islam but they are definitely disowned by their family or tribe.

An interesting debate took place recently between Wafa Sultan (an ex-Muslim who believes that Islam can never be reformed) and Daniel Pipes (a non-Muslim Islamic scholar) who believes that Islam can be reformed. http://fora.tv/2009/12/01/Moderate_Islam_Western_Ally_or_Western_Myth

When Pipes was asked by Sultan how successful was he (together with some secular Muslims) in reforming Islam, they was no reply.

The obvious answer is that Islam is Islam; there is going to be a fight to the finish between Islam and non-Islam.

Looks like Islam would be wiped out completely because most Islamic countries are backward

examinator I consider myself a fan of yours.
But that post got it very wrong.
Goggle news ,any day any time and see the murders of innocents .
No fundamentalism, not just Islamic, is growing.
In my view as a result of Islamic terrorism.
I will never know why, but my in box gets Christian bigotry/fundamentalism, in increasing numbers.
But back to the thread foxy do not be concerned, you set out the rules in post one mikk, is quite wrong not you.
But we all, must not confuse our freedoms and wishes with what is achievable.
Fundamentalist I slam will not ever play by our rules/standards.
We will in time, understand we have to play roll in defeating them, not charming them to our ways.

HermanYutic,

somewhere along the track you appear to have lost the plot of what I was saying.
Deaths from old age compared to preventable violent deaths?
The idea of comparing the Amish with the Israelis/Palestinians is preposterously simplistic and extreme. If anything, your response proves my point that most judgments on issues like this are driven more by emotion than objectivity or reality.

I neither defend or justify the violence of a few extremists, regardless of which side were the perpetrators.
I merely answered foxy's question in broad terms(limited space) to discuss other provable factors.

I did not say it was entirely the west's fault. The intention was to show that the west's, specifically US's selfish interests combined with local, historical issues and unbelievable poverty all contribute to the problem.

Nor did I infer that terrorism shouldn't be reported only that the fact that the reporting is salacious, selectively reported and sensationalized.

The PLO was originally a *nationalist* not religious group per se. As I said religion etc is used by the leaders to motivate the masses.
All the people you mentioned were motivated by a religious extreme emanating from the founders of the Muslim brotherhood.

By the way the Hindu extremists are every bit chauvinist terrorists.
have blown up trains loads of innocent people on religious grounds.They have even burnt Christian missionaries. They see their biggest enemy as the Pakistanis (Muslims are the excuse).
BTW India was a non aligned democratic state with out oil....no interest to the US other than a trading partner. They have a country too.

The references to sociological and psychological principals/influences were also missed.
In short my post was largely a plea for objectivity rather than cultural/religious based bias.

Foxy,

The quote below is from an authoritative Islamic Q&A website.
It clearly explains how the Verse of the Sword abrogates the earlier peaceful Koranic verses.
Could this reality be a driving force behind Islamic terrorism?

“*{And so, when the sacred months are over, slay those who ascribe divinity to aught beside God wherever you may come upon them, and take them captive, and besiege them, and lie in wait for them at every conceivable place ! Yet if they repent, and take to prayer, and render the purifying dues, let them go their way: for, behold, God is much forgiving, a dispenser of grace.}* (At-Tawbah(‘s interpretation of Koran) 9:5)………..

Therefore, the following verses were considered abrogated (by the Verse of the Sword, above):

*{No compulsion in the religion}* (Al-Baqarah 2:256);

*{Forgive them, for God loves those who do good to people}* (Al-An`am 6:13);

*{Repel evil with that which is best}* (Al-Mu'minum 23: 96);

*{So patiently persevere}* (Ar-Rum 30:60);

*{Do not argue with the People of the Book except with means that are best}* (Fusslilat 41:46);

and *{Say: You have your religion and I have my religion.}* (Al-Kafirun 109:6)

In addition, a large number of prophetic traditions that legitimize peace treaties and multi-cultural co-existence, to use contemporary terms, were also abrogated.”

http://www.readingislam.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1220266448739&pagename=IslamOnline-English-AAbout_Islam/AskAboutIslamE/AskAboutIslamE

“Dr. Jasser Auda is the Founding Director of Al-Maqasid Research Centre in the Philosophy of Islamic Law (Markaz Dirasat Maqasid al-Shariah al-Islamiyyah ), Al-Furqan Foundation, London, U.K., since 2005; fellow of the International Institute of Advanced Systems Research, Canada; founding member of the International Union for Muslim Scholars, based in Dublin; member of the Academic Council of the International Institute of Islamic Thought, UK; member of the Board of Trustees of the Global Civilizations Study Centre, UK; member of the Executive Board of the Association of Muslim Social Scientists, UK; member of the Forum Against Islamophobia and Racism, UK…..”

I recognise that Auda later wades into a relativistic quagmire of apologia but the above is sufficient
to demonstrate that Islamic fundamentalists are NOT misinterpreting Islam.