Given the shenanigans going on in the Liberal (sic) party over AGW, that is based on offsets. Their argument is about action V no action.
My concerns are with the ETS, bacause it's based on off-sets.
this exert give a fair representation of the problem.....

"Carbon offsetting and carbon markets haven't really delivered the reductions of greenhouse gas emissions they claimed and in many ways have just made the problem worse,' they explained.
'These schemes have often just provided an incentive for big polluting companies to continue emitting greenhouse gases rather than to change their ways.
'Often, carbon offsetting schemes have very negative effects on local communities and eco-systems in developing countries.'
The book contributes to a growing field of critics of carbon markets by highlighting several up-to-date examples of where the system has failed and often led to negative social, economic and environmental impacts in deprived countries.
'Carbon markets simply don't address the underlying and root causes of climate change, which is an over-consumption of finite fossil fuels,' added Dr Böhm and Mr Dabhi. 'We are addicted to oil, gas, coal and a whole range of other fossil fuels, which, when burned for heating, electricity generation or other usages, release greenhouse gases. It is now time to make up for the lost decade since Kyoto and start to deal with our underlying reliance on fossil fuels.'
They also warn that companies claiming to be 'carbon neutral' due to carbon offsetting, need to be careful as the schemes they are supporting may not be as green as they think."
<http://www.sciencedaily.com­ /releases/2009/11/091127124225.htm>.

What do you think?

NB. this post isn't about the if AGW exists or not it assumes We need to do something but what

I think what's wrong with it is that nobody really understands it in any detail.

There hasn't been any serious public discussion except for scaremongering from both sides, some exaggerated but mostly irrational and aggressive.

Rudd should have engaged the public earlier and perhaps splashed out with a multi-million dollar "eduction campaign" (as per Howard's GST) and maybe thrown in a fridge magnet ot two.

Assuming that the public was smart enough to decide for itself has apparently fallen short and turned what should have been a serious global matter into a political sideshow.

The Libs are just as guilty - they had ample opportunity to make their views clearly known a couple of years ago and not just wait till a political opportunity to cash in presented itself.

A simpler method would be for everybody to pay a flat levy on pre-determined items with no compensation or upper limit. Rationing fuel and electricity would be a good option too but policially unpalatable - hence this version of the ETS.

Another option is to ignore it and face the inevitable tariff barriers that would be thrown up against us by other compliant nations in the years ahead.

Good question Examinator.

I won’t attempt to answer it in this post. I just want to say that I find it absolutely incredible that with all the Liberal Party kerfuffle about Turnbull’s support for Rudd’s ETS, just about no one seems interested in the actual ETS or the concessions won by the Libs.

Turnbull has said that his concessions will save thousands of jobs and make the ETS more effective. And yet I haven’t seen or heard any elaboration on this.

All the media reports about the Libs leadership and the unrest that is happening as a result of Turnbull supporting Rudd seem to have completely bypassed any discussion on the veracity of the ETS or of Turnbull’s assertion that he has won improvements to it.

I think that people within the shadow government, within the broader party membership and indeed within the whole community, are supporting Turnbull, Hockey, Abbott or Minchin without knowing anything about the ETS at the centre of the row.

The media just doesn’t seem interested and neither do the public!! The actual ETS seems to be vastly less important than the leadership contest. It can apparently wait til later.

And yet surely people need to know in order to have an informed opinion.

Once the leadership issue has been settled, the vast majority of people who are now interested, who are expressing their opinions and voting in polls, will have lost interest and won’t give two hoots about the detail of the ETS!

This is really quite bizarre and rather depressing.

whats wrong is...its based on fraud...modeling and altered facts...and media silence...and govt complicity..into treason



see/the collapse of capitalism...its tortally/totally/broke

the banker's... been calling the tune...you should allready know...
were under the terms of bankruptcy..thus govt has become subverted...the system is broke

the new tax is only to try and push a broken system..
into its next bubble...regradless of its cost...

they are in total/global control..there is a better way...we dont/need the buirdon...they need this bailout[the..carbon/tax]

but its bound to fail...un-employed dont spend much..so here is the new deal

we pass..the tax..IMMEDIATLY...but with a sunset-clause...for a full reviuw...in 2012...with the true/numbers



this..gets us out of..the immediate meltdown...that will force our best leaders..into treason...in copenhagen

...BUT THE SUNSET CLAUSE...must be set in stone
'business'..gets/what they want....immediatly...to test their way...BUT we/HAVE A FULL YEAR,..TO REVIEUW...this gloobal warming deception...put it all on trial...in 2 year's...it is bound to fail...because its based..on lies

http://www.prisonplanet.com/momentum-grows-for-copenhagen-climate-deal.html

http://www.infowars.com/hot-climategate-debate-scientists-clash-live-on-rt/

http://www.prisonplanet.com/climategate-master-criminal-phil-jones-collected-22-6-million-in-grants.html

http://www.infowars.com/gore-says-supercomputing-can-be-killer-app-in-climate-change/

Climate change:..this is the worst scientific/scandal of our generation
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/christopherbooker/6679082/Climate-change-this-is-the-worst-scientific-scandal-of-our-generation.html

Scientists..at the University of East Anglia..(UEA)..have admitted..throwing away..much of the raw temperature data..on which their predictions of global warming..are based.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/climategate-spells-end-to-the-false-science-of-climate-change.html

Climategate:..The Silence is Deafening..from the Corporate Media
http://www.prisonplanet.com/climategate-the-silence-is-deafening-from-the-corporate-media.html

By now..most of us..in the alternative media.are aware of the some 61 megabytes..of global warming research data of emails,..documents,..and computer code..released by whistleblowers

that have exposed/climate scientists,..at the University of East Anglia in Great Britain,..as the frauds..they’ve proven themselves to be.

“Climategate”..surpasses..“Global Warming”.on Google
http://www.prisonplanet.com/%e2%80%9cclimategate%e2%80%9d-surpasses-%e2%80%9cglobal-warming%e2%80%9d-on-google.html

http://www.prisonplanet.com/climategate-for-dummies.html

Lord Monckton:..Shut Down The UN,..Arrest Al Gore
http://www.prisonplanet.com/lord-monckton-shut-down-the-un-arrest-the-warmist-criminals.html

Appearing..on The Alex Jones-Show..yesterday,..Lord Christopher Monckton..went further than ever before..in his vehement opposition to..the elitists..running the climate change..scam,

http://www.prisonplanet.com/more-on-the-niwa-new-zealand-data-adjustment-story.html

UN scientists..turn on each other:..UN Scientist..Declares Climategate colleagues Mann,Jones and Rahmstorf..’should be barred from the IPCC process’..They are..‘not credible/..any more’

http://climatedepot.com/a/4100/UN-scientists-turn-on-each-other-UN-Scientist-Declares-Climategate-colleagues-Mann-Jones-and-Rahmstorf-should-be-barred-from-the-IPCC-process--They-are-not-credible-any-more

A UN scientist..is declaring..that his three fellow UN climate/panel colleagues..“should be barred..from the IPCC process.”
http://www.prisonplanet.com/the-great-climate-change-science-scandal.html

lots of key-word links
http://www.prisonplanet.com/un-scientists-turn-on-each-other-un-scientist-declares-climategate-colleagues-mann-jones-and-rahmstorf-should-be-barred-from-the-ipcc-process-they-are-not-credible-any-more.htm

Ludwig,
I'm not sure if to admire your optimism or be dismayed by your political bias, to the exclusion of meaningful policy.

The issue in the Libs has nothing to do with the ETS. The two issues are about conservatism V Liberalism as in Menzies, And the Conservatives FLAT REJECTION of AGW (full stop). Howard guillotined public discussion on the two options. But in recognition of the Conservatives in the party he pushed no response to AGW required.

The two options floated were a flat carbon Tax or an ETS. The business sector wanted an ETS because it offered the least hit to their bottom line (or biggest cushion from reality).

I believe that most fair minded Aussies have no problem paying a little extra on bills if it is going to genuinely help the environment. Even the most gullible Green knows that this tax is about putting funds into the hands of corrupt African and third world leaders just so Mr Rudd's ego can be stroked. If the Australian public really knew what this scam was about Rudd would be tossed out at the next election despite the pathetically divided opposition. Thankfully a few members of the opposition were had enough integrity to be a voice of reason among the deceitfulness of the 'experts' and spin merchants. The national broadcasters are sounding more pathetic each day as they have promoted this indefensible money grab after making such a fuss over the GST. At least Mr Howard was honest about what he was doing with the money. The States have all benefited from the GST. Corruption will be the winner if the ETS is agreed to. It certainly won't help the environment.