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The Forum > General Discussion > Change at last?

Change at last?

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Based on the recent shenanigans in the Liberal party, one can see there is a titanic struggle going on between the Conservatism (Abbott) Versus Liberalism (Hockey).
Clearly the Liberal Party is in turmoil.

This raises a number of questions:
- Is liberalism compatible with conservatism in the same party
- who will win, and will the other-side see the light and toe the line?
- what do you think of the choice?
- who will you support?
- if he loses will you support the other?
- and where do you think this leaves the country party (OOPS, national party)?
- what do you think this will mean for the country?
Posted by examinator, Friday, 27 November 2009 1:18:18 PM
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The dynamics in the Liberal party room are certainly fascinating.

- Is liberalism compatible with conservatism in the same party?

About as compatible as a pair of forceps that have been left in one's body after surgery. The body will live but hardly thrive.

- who will win, and will the other-side see the light and toe the line?

Neither will ultimately win (see below) and the hardline counterparts on the other side will never toe the line.

- what do you think of the choice?

A Catch-22. If Abbott wins the leader's job, he'll lose the election. If Hockey wins, he'll lose too. But they'll both lose for different reasons. Abbott, too conservative; Hockey, underdone. Plus Oppositions do not win elections, governments lose them and I don't think it's time for the Government to lose yet.

- who will you support?

Neither, but both. That is, some intelligent blend of the two (or perhaps a remoulded Malcolm Turnbull).

- if he loses will you support the other?

It doesn't matter; it's all about filling the vacuum at the moment.

- and where do you think this leaves the country party (OOPS, national party)?

Ditto as above.

- what do you think this will mean for the country?

Rudd will have his prime ministership extended for as long the Liberals cannot come up with a coherent political message and their MPs put their views ahead of the collective interests of the LP.
Posted by RobP, Friday, 27 November 2009 3:12:13 PM
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Examinator, what do you see as the significant differences / conflicts between what you call conservatism and liberalism (or Abbottism and Hockeyism?)?

I cringe to think of Abbott as their leader moreso than Hockey, but I can’t really put any solid reasoning behind that feeling. I guess I see Hockey as being more likely to initiate the development of sensible policies in relation to population growth, never-ending expansionism, sustainability and all things related to these overridingly important parameters. But only minutely more likely!! I see Abbott as an absolute dinosaur when it comes to these things.

“what do you think of the choice?”

Very little.

“who will you support?”

Hockey.

“if he loses will you support the other?”

After this upheaval has been settled, I’ll support the Libs, regardless of who their leader is, if they show some sort of action towards reducing our absurdly high immigration rate and other things related to sustainability. If they don’t…and let’s face it, they won’t....they’ll get NO support from me!

“where do you think this leaves the country party (OOPS, national party)?”

I couldn’t give a hoot!

“what do you think this will mean for the country?”

The most obvious thing that this turmoil means is an entrenchment of Ruddism. Our highly flawed PM can virtually do what he likes without having any fear of the opposition or of losing power at the next election or even the one after. This makes him a virtual dictator…which is extremely dangerous with the ‘Big Australia’ massive expansionist policies that he has imposed upon us!

The new Libs leader will have to do some pretty amazing stuff and keep a very high level of unity behind him if he is to change this situation.
Posted by Ludwig, Friday, 27 November 2009 3:42:14 PM
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Don't ya think Turnbull should have been a labour man to start with, i recon its only the depth of his pockets that why he ended up as a liberal.
Hocky or Abbot if ya put em together it could be the Abbot and Hocky show.
Posted by Desmond, Friday, 27 November 2009 4:06:22 PM
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It is quite clear, to me at least Abbot is from the dead hand of the Right, an infestation that is doing great harm to his party/movement.
Hockey not long ago would have been happy to follow Turnbull for a while.
Then make his move.
This now is for conservatives an event as bad as the ALP/DLP split, it may last as long.
Great harm long lasting harm has been done.
Monday is no push over Turnbull has cornered himself, in my view he looks more statesman like now than ever before, but his party does not have the glue to reunite behind him.
So who?
I think Abbot is not the man, he if he wins will not be able to unite the party, so he will not win.
Hockey, to unite the party would need to back down from everything he has ever stood for, so for now he will not win.
A new yet unknown should/will take over the reins on Monday.
Or Turnbull will lead for a last chance election campaign.
I remain firmly convinced a leader exists, warts and all, for the present he is Turnbull, show me another.
Know before you do, voters are still behind an ETS.
Posted by Belly, Friday, 27 November 2009 4:19:16 PM
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it occurs to me the two party scam...[of dropping..non paryy men in control...[like rudd /turnbull/..is revealing the deliberated partypolicy...of picking party hack/...no bodies...that need orders to follow

ive never trusted the cuddely bear..[hocky puk]...and allways felt tony to be on the shifty side[in looks]..but then again look at the howhard slimball before his image change..upon reaching pm

ol joe..likes having orders...and while far from stupid..i think has this fear to lead...and i think he is smart enough to know this...somehow hockey stiche..appears more right....than anthony..yet he is the left?

i thought tony on qanda/lateline...has the seed of leadership..in him..and also huge party loyalty...more than many could realise...

see his challange...help get that..gretch email revealations..out of the 2 minutes politics gets in ya news...

barely a peep is heard of the whole gretch/turnbull..email..exchange...being fullsumly engaged upon...just pre this..''challange''...neatly headed off from media attention via..the ab-bott...robot...we so resepct..for his political nouse/timming

either way..they both..are better than any of you deserve..to lead the lib...you lot deserve...three faced/banker...who when he survives...the challange...

and shall continue doing ever greater blunders...keeping his mate[krudd]...in power..till he hands over to julia..when his brand goes south...its the whole peter/anna play...in play
Posted by one under god, Friday, 27 November 2009 4:43:01 PM
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