What most Rudd critics fail to see is that he is simply "Howard-lite" in his policies and approach.

Except for the apology, broadband and taking away some (but not all) of the pain of Workchoices, there's not much he has done that the Liberals wouldn't have in the same circumstances.

Rudd's responses to the GFC - guaranteeing Bank deposits and the stimulus package - were backed and endorsed by Turnbull & Co when they happened but they only backed away when they found some token differences in the detail.

Likewise, the refugee fiasco would likely still have happened because of the changed situation in Sri Lanka plus the fact that the Temporary Protection Visa process was going to be dismantled anyway.

When challenged for an alternative their "we're not the Government" chant is an admission of a total policy vaccuum.

Their recent approach has been along the lines of the "interest rates will always be lower.." mantra. Oppose everything but offer nothing different.

It's time for them to put up some true policies - that's what Beazley was criticised for.

Turnbull's weakness has always been his poor judgement and that's helped Rudd as well.

Whoever takes the Libs to the next election will likely lose and be replaced anyway so the next few days won't make any difference unless they get serious about policies.

That's the problem with the 2-party system. We only get to choose between the left and right (actually centre and right) wings of what is essentially the same party.

After the initial thrill of John Howard's spectacular political demise, I thought it would be quite some time before things hotted up in the Liberal camp.

I've actually taken a bit of a shine to Malcolm Turnbull - he's so unpolylike. His penchant for periodic grandstanding before the press is rather endearing as well - good all-round entertainment. One can't help barracking for him now that all those dissenting bullies are giving him a hard time.

Personally, I think Hockey wants to keep his powder dry - he knows its too early.

I'll bet Peter Costello is sniggering into his cocoa.

I am having some fun with this, not the fact the Liberals are self destructing, they have been from day one of work choices, their D day.
No the amusement comes at the birth of their greens.
A thorn in my side and my party's greens are mostly from the I will never vote for that mob again camp.
Those who never will understand only the center will ever rule Australia.
And who fail to understand no party can please all its members , and still win those that it must, to be elected.
Turnbull right now is the only leader they have.
A win for Abbott would be a win for the distroyers,a dangerous minority the very right in their ranks.
An infestation that drives them to self destruct, and stops them EVER winning the center.
Nationals, wander in a world of their own, ignoring those who gave birth to their party, farmers and country folk, they fight for big business and miners.
Fight to stay alive by killing their own grass roots, in NSW long ago country Labor has replaced them as preferred bush representatives.
Each vote they win costs 3 welded on ones.
Hockey can win, if he lets himself be fashioned into something he never has been, if he becomes a puppet, he should wait, in time this party will need a leader.
Not until after much blood letting.
Turnbull if removed may leave the Parliament, another Lazarus is unlikely to rise from these ashes for more than a decade.

under turncoat/bull/rudd..we have the boys club..in place to force the lib party to eat itself...no doudt this would be in an email exchange...much like the gretch one..somewhere in the 2 party system

the gretch/turnbull revelations were well underway when the abbot made his media destraction from it...let me explain the thinking behind all of this...in my opinion

we have the potential...for the securities traders..to tax the people of the world/direct...for them to bid its price up...to as much as the bull market can bear

the former banker...via claiming party concensus...is able to eliminate the party line...party concensus...with his constant deciets[look at the gretch/turnbull..emails being left alone..because of the latest bull turn]

so whats the turncoats plan..a long sought global tax..on carbon...that does nothing but cash up the next bubble[the carbon tax bubble...its not about making less carbon...

but getting more cash...to create/finance.. the next industrial/revolution...wearing a green skin..while the other polutions..get on with business as usual...there is no debate that industry directly caused this/and financeers proffited hansomly from this...even to the extent of the bailout...when its own greed/creed sent itself broke

now with the new cash cow...its a done deal/by the way...industry can rebuild industry..in china and the third world...ensuring bankers/securities traiters...their next round of bonus...and the money changers...fully despoil gods temperal temple...with the neo carbon in-dust.trial age

its clear that...turncoat...thinks he can finish this on monday..thus by the meeting on tuesday...the carbon/issue has allready sealed the new age...with the money traiders/binding the sheeple...into a clever..[too clever by far]..new tax....

built up by deception...for greed...by the smartest/arrrssess..industrialised/capitalised/elites..lording..it over the parties...and the party-members swallowing the two party/globalist warming..lie

yes the climate changes...but man made change...is being blamed to make warming...lets be clear...how clever..the change...away from warming..really is...its not warming...its changing...just like it allways has...and allways will

Rache, I basically agree, except for the bit about asylum seekers.

My major concern is that the Libs do indeed imitate Rudd…or that Rudd is a me-tooist Liberal! They are just two peas in a pod and Australia just doesn’t have a meaningful opposition force.

This is extremely bad, given the absolutely rank policies that Rudd has come up with, especially the massive immigration rate and his horrible Big Australia rhetoric, as I keep saying across various threads.

In this regard, he has continued with Howard’s policy or record expansionism, but worsened it by imposing an unimaginable new record rate of expansionism upon us, and without giving us a clue before the election that he was going to do this.

I’ve been urging Turnbull to counter this by developing a policy of sustainability, which would include the stabilisation of our population. The Libs MUST do this if they want to present a genuine alternative style of governance, of the sort that the Australian people can really get behind.

After listening to Turnbull on the 7.30 Report last night, I think that he might have actually started to move in this direction. He is sounding quite green….for an old redneck!!

If Abbott or Hockey were to become leader, this momentum would presumably stop dead in its tracks. The Libs would remain Rudd imitators and remain in opposition for aeons.

Perhaps it is just wishful thinking on my part regarding Turnbull’s environmental expressions. Perhaps, in fact almost definitely, the Libs will have to totally stuff around for a while longer and lose the next election by a huge landslide. Then maybe they might get the message that the ONLY way forward is to become greener than the Greens and develop policies centred on genuine sustainability.
….
Poirot, welcome to OLO.

to/the Environmental/two/party/.Movement's:..
Your Movement..Has Been Hijacked

http://www.corbettreport.com/articles/20091125_enviro_message.htm


http://www.youtube.com/v/uEggt0ldQUI

Transcript:..You/who have watched..with growing concern..the ways in which/the world around us..has been ravaged..in the pursuit of..the almighty dollar.

You..who are concerned.with the state of.the planet..that we are leaving..for our children..and our grandchildren..and those generations yet unborn.

This..is not/a message of/divisiveness,..but cooperation.

This..is a message/of hope and empowerment.. but it..requires us..to look at a hard..and uncomfortable truth:..Your movement..has been usurped..by the very same...financial interests..you thought/you were fighting against.

You have suspected..as much for years.

You watched..at first with hope..and excitement..as your movement,..your cause,.your message/began to spread,..as it was taken up by the media..and given attention,..as conferences were organized and as the ideas..you had struggled/so long and hard..to be heard..were talked about..nationally...Then internationally.

You watched with growing unease..as the message was simplified...First..it became a slogan...Then..it became a brand...Soon it was nothing more..than a label..and it became attached to products/bands/parties.

The ideas..you had once fought for..were now being sold/back..to you. For profit/..via carbon tax.

You watched..with growing unease..as the message became parroted,..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xi1LU45Nip0
.. not argued, worn like a fashion
http://www.ecorazzi.com/2009/11/17/green-fashion-8-celebrities-with-eco-friendly-collections/
..rather than something..that came..from/the conviction..of understanding.

You disagreed..when the slogans–and..then the science–were dumbed down...When carbon dioxide..became the focus..and CO2 was taken up as a political-cause..Soon..it was the only cause.

You knew that..Al Gore was not a scientist,..that his evidence/was factually incorrect,
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/11/AR2007101102134.html

knew..that the movement..was being taken-over..by a cause..that was not/your own,..one that relied..on beliefs..you did not share..to propose a solution..you did not want

It began..to reach a/breaking-point..when you saw..that the solutions being proposed..were not solutions..at all,..when they began to propose..new taxes..and new markets..that would only serve..to line their own/pockets.

You knew something..was wrong..when you saw them argue..for a cap-and-trade scheme proposed by Ken Lay,
http://cei.org/gencon/019,02898.cfm

..when you saw Goldman/Sachs..position itself..to ride the carbon trading bubble,
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/28816321/inside_the_great_american_bubble_machine
..when the whole thrust..of the movement..became ways..to make money or spend money..or raise money/from this panic.

Your movement..had been hijacked.

The realization..came the first time..you read The Club of Rome’s 1991 book,..The First Global Revolution,
http://www.archive.org/stream/TheFirstGlobalRevolution#page/n85/mode/2up

..which says: