>>There are some very worthy people in Labour including Julia Gillard and Lindsay Tanner.<<

Pelican, worthy of what? When people start talking like that, I get a bit suss. The true test of a politician comes when they get into Government, not Opposition. Because that's when they can actually get some runs on the board and be judged for what they do, not just what they say. Let's see what they do before we judge.

>>After seeing Abbot on the 7.30 Report last night and hearing him on Breakfast on Radio National this morning, I’m warming to him.<<

Ludwig, Abbott's all over the place. One minute he's got a wide magnanimous streak, the next he's a nasty bovver boy. I remember a Lateline interview some years back where he and Bob McMullan were debating truth in politics. Abbott did the nastiest political ambush I've ever seen - more like a personal assassination on McMullan - which was completely unfair and uncalled for. Abbott flips between being a hit-man to a wimp and back again. IMO, you've got to ask, which is the real Tony and how can you really trust the word of a guy like that?

True RobP. I felt as a Labor/Green voter that I should add I do like some people in the ALP despite my comments about Rudd - I did not want the fact I am disillusioned with the Leader to taint the 'whole' picture.

In terms of personalities, I prefer Gillard and Tanner because while you may not always agree with them, they come across as real people, Tanner in particular is one of the more honest when interviewed. He is not afraid to put a personal view that might not always marry with the Government stance.

But you are right, personalities are not actions and it is only by what politicians do that they can be judged.

“Ludwig, Abbott's all over the place……”

Yes RobP, I fear you are right.

I said earlier that I’m warming to him. Wellll… I think it is more a case of really wanting him to be an effective leader and big thorn in Rudd’s side.

----

“Tanner in particular is one of the more honest when interviewed. He is not afraid to put a personal view that might not always marry with the Government stance.”

Fair enough Pelican.

Gillard? Hmmm...not so sure.

“…personalities are not actions and it is only by what politicians do that they can be judged.”

Not so sure about that. Unfortunately the media and general public are all too fickle when it comes to a polly’s personality or particular comments that they’ve made compared to things that they’ve actually done, when judging their effectiveness or appeal.

gillard made promises and assurances to the hemp party
dont trust her

not sure on lindsey either
stays in the background..choses when he wants to play
not leader/material...either of em

>>But you are right, personalities are not actions and it is only by what politicians do that they can be judged.<<

Pelican, I agree with this 100% - one must judge people on what's on the inside that comes out in their actions.

Ludwig, You're looking at it from the outside in. The political media is often only speculating based on impression rather than fact which is why you have to take a lot of what they say with a grain of salt. I agree that their "judgements" are often quite wrong. Often they ignore people's good and solid works behind the scenes while they talk up the more flashy, but mediocre performances.

>>I said earlier that I’m warming to him. Wellll… I think it is more a case of really wanting him to be an effective leader and big thorn in Rudd’s side.<<

The paradox is that I think the Liberal Party had a very effective leader in Turnbull, but he couldn't get any traction and was dragged down by the political process. Every time he tried to do the right thing (ie look to the future to getting the scheme on track and correct), all that was achieved was that the souffle rose a little bit more in the oven as the Government sought to keep the pressure up.

Having Abbott as leader may work for the Libs in a perverse sort of way in that he simply opposes the government's legislation and starves the souffle of heat at which point it flops. The Libs can then enter stage right as the policy fixers who will get the legislation into order.

Who knows which is the better of the two approaches. The truth is you probably need a bit of both for the policy and its implementation to be sustainable.

One under God you do carry on.
So Gillard broke a promise to the hemp mob?
She came from the very left, yet did not even give a promise to unions.
Not radical extremist unions.
Ordinary voice of the workers unions.
I can wear the hemp betrayal, but she concerns me, new Labor?
Just balance and fair go mate Labor will do me.
Abbott, can it be that the mouse who now roars has convinced some he is not who he truly is?
He is the man who stopped a scheme his party went to the last election with, after saying he supported it.
He wants work choices in a new dress.
He gained ,for a time, right control of his party, by betraying his stated position and leader.
In putting the very right in power he actually started an internal party war that may take decades to stop.
Turnbull was twice the man.