see http://www.larouchepac.com/lpactv Click on, "Credit Dollar Steps Towards Big Four"

Lyndon La Rouche is now being taken seriously internationally because of his possible solutions to the World Economic Crisis.He wants to create a credit system of monetary creation instead of our debt system,that makes the derivative economy too big a parasite on real productivity.Presently Bernanke has created billions in cyber money to keep the bubble economy afloat,but this is only bring on a much bigger crisis heralded by the collapse of the US $.

La Rouche suggests that the way out of this crisis is joint economic projects like China and Russia have in the pipeline which,presently number 205.These include transport infrastructure mining and energy development.The big four he suggests, China,India USA and Russia can find a constructive peaceful way out.

Our dilemma is that we have the millstone of these European based Central Banks around our necks ,who produce nothing and still think they are the centre of the universe.

The USA must refrain from this aggressive stance of surrounding China and invading oil rich countries.Ron Paul has won his right for an audit of the US Federal Reserve,but as expected,they are fighting it.

Reason must prevail soon,since the West is on the path to destruction.

You never fail to fascinate me, Arjay, with your choice of heroes to worship.

>>Lyndon La Rouche is now being taken seriously internationally because of his possible solutions to the World Economic Crisis<<

This time you have chosen a real doozy.

LaRouche is a serial fantasist. A Fascist who once was Marxist. A Quaker who supported Saddam Hussein.

Someone who has such a distant affinity with reality, that he is happy to publish conflicting autobiographies, and not think twice about it.

Someone who serially invents his own past, to accommodate his current fantasy - like his pretence that he was an FBI informant during his seventeen years in the Socialist Workers Party.

Someone whose dedication to the plight of the downtrodden proletariat was so great, that he spent years as a well-paid management consultant at George S May, helping corporations reduce labour costs.

Someone who was a master of self-promotion and self deception, who, on the topic of his own insights into physics could say "I saw clearly, for the first time, the nature of the solution to the 'particle-field paradox'", with an entirely straight face.

Unfortunately, he has provided no further information on this major scientific breakthrough, so we'll just have to take his word for it.

Someone whose skill as a psychoanalyst was such that after his conducting counselling sessions with a young Freedom Rider called Griswold, the poor fellow committed suicide. Typically, LaRouche blamed this on his wife, for "intruding".

And you have chosen this man's economic "policies" as being attractive. What is it about them that persuades you that they might have any value?

You really should try, Arjay, to model your approach to life on people who are somewhat more... how shall I put this... stable.

Pericles,If someone has a good idea,you should not let your own bias distort the reality.I don't care from what side of politics people come from,good reason and logic is all that matters.I don't agree with Ron Paul or La Rouche entirely,but they both have good ideas.

Whether it be communist,facist or corportate totalitarianism,they are equally as bad.We do not have true democracy at the moment.

You need to make your mind more flexible.

Pericles,

Did you know of Lyndon La Rouche's history before Arjay mentioned him here? It seems you often take the time to go an investigate Arjay's articles and report on what you found. It is not something I do myself - I gave up on paying much attention to Arjay's theories ages ago.

Nonetheless, it is nice to have that strategy confirmed as being the right one occasionally. Thanks for doing leg work.

Yup, you'd certainly need to exercise "flexibility" on this one, Arjay.

>>Pericles,If someone has a good idea,you should not let your own bias distort the reality... You need to make your mind more flexible.<<

So tell me, how do you judge a "good idea"?

Because it seems to me that you don't actually look behind the headlines when you assess the work of a Ron Paul or a Lyndon Larouche.

Paul is - like you - a conspiracy addict, whose views on how to "help" the economy are firmly rooted in a world of idealistic, impractical nonsense, as I have pointed out to you ad infinitum.

And so it is with Larouche.

You may be attracted to his essential anti-establishment nature - your devotion to conspiracy theory is a give-away - but surely you cannot fail to see the essential emptiness of his thought processes.

Here is a typical sample.

"Our industries, our agriculture, our infrastructure is decaying, worldwide — especially in the Americas, especially in North America, and especially in Western Europe. Western and Central Europe is a disaster area. They no longer have national security, economic security, they're dominated by the British, entirely, under the British system, which was established in the context of the breakdown of the Soviet Union and East German economy. At that point, the British succeeded, with the support of Mitterrand, and with the support of George H.W. Bush, the President at that time, in imposing upon Germany and other nations of Western and Central Europe, conditions which are destructive. And the Western European economy is generally bankrupt, today, hopelessly so. It could be reorganized, through bankruptcy reorganization, but presently the whole system of Western and Central Europe is hopelessly bankrupt, as other parts of the world are."

http://www.larouchepac.com/node/12093

You'd need the flexibility of a contortionist to drag any sense out of that little lot.

My point is this.

The man has lived so much of his life in denial of reality, the chances of his proposals having a breath of viability are nil.

And from his own mouth, he continues to prove it.

This discussion is based on a false premise.
The failure of the financial system was forced by the surge in oil
prices just two months before the crash.
Oil reach US$147 a barrel. The economy could not stand that shock.
It forced millions into default, and it all fell apart.
The magic number seems to be oil costs over 4% GDP.

It is pointless now fiddling with the financial system, the problem
now is energy and it will continue to be so.

Four of the previous five recessions were preceded by oil price spikes.
Expect another spike in price, perhaps towards the end of 2010 as
Chinese oil demand keeps increasing.

Bazz: "The failure of the financial system was forced by the surge in oil prices just two months before the crash."

Wow Bazz, what happened? You have posted, what, 3 or so times today and regardless of the topic you attribute the base cause of the problem to peak oil. What have you been reading?

You aren't doing yourself or your message any favours when you push it this far though. Most people attribute the $147 high to the speculative bubble that also caused the GFC. To say that oil caused the speculative bubble is a little over the top. As you say yourself, oil production peaked in 2008. It is unlikely arriving at the peak would cause the 3 fold price increase in three years that spooked you.

Be patient. It will happen soon enough. We on the slide down the other side of the peak now, and I expect that we will find ourselves looking longingly back to the good old days when oil "only" tripled in price in 3 years. I see oil hit USD$82 a barrel today, double its price at the start of year. If it continues at this rate, it will triple in price in 18 months, hitting the peak 2008 price early in the new year.

If it continues at this pace, nobody can't do much to influence the 2-3 year outcome anyway - no even you. So sit back and enjoy the ride, Bazz. At least you will have the satisfaction of telling of telling us all "I told you so". Besides, once petrol hits $2/litre you won't have to tell anybody. Every voter in the nation will be doing that job for you.

Nice thought. rstuart, but not the case.

>>Pericles, Did you know of Lyndon La Rouche's history before Arjay mentioned him here? It seems you often take the time to go an investigate Arjay's articles and report on what you found<<

As someone who has Oswald Mosley's autohagiography on his bookshelf, and whose grandad actually attended one of Mosley's Limehouse rallies, I didn't need to look up Lyndon Larouche. He is from a long line of Fascists, pseudo-Fascists, neo-Fascists and wannabe Fascists who constantly prey on the gullible and the insecure.

Nor do I need prompting on another of Arjay's favourites, von Mises and the Austrian School, whose dreamings I studied on business school summer camp back in the seventies. Ah, memories.

I do admit, though, to using his paranoia to direct and refresh my research into conspiracy theories, which is a sort-of hobby of mine. Although my teenage son does also keeps me well informed of the latest craze in that sphere.

Arjay just keeps on pressing my buttons, that's all.

I sometimes wonder whether he is in fact a totally sane individual, with a quirky sense of fun, and that I am merely his pawn, his plaything, as he feeds me all these ridiculous notions, just to see if I'll bite.

But then again, he might actually be genuinely very easily-led, easy prey to the latest wacky idea that swims into his field of vision.

It is quite likely that he actually believes at least some of what he writes.

Ha Ha Rstuart;
Yes I know I am nagging, but how often does your wife's
nagging get you to do that odd job ?
She who must be obeyed certainly gets me started.

Seriously though, there are just too many people who do not take into
account that it will not be business as usual in a surprisingly short time.
Politicians are classic examples of this.
>It is unlikely arriving at the peak would cause the 3 fold price
>increase in three years that spooked you.
I think that was caused by the crude only peak in May 2005 and the
plateau that is still with us.
Speculation is of course is always a factor, but all that does is
exaggerate the effect by an unknown amount as it is an amplifier.
Back to the thread, fiddling with the finances is not going to be
effective unless depletion is a major input.

Pericles,Bush created Saddham Hussein and supported him.The USA were in Iraq purely for the oil.They lied about the WMD's.
None of you have viewed the La Rouche video,yet have an opinion?

What Russia and China are using US $ now to build infrastructure so this money now has value .They are doing themselves and the US a favour by giving value to the US monoply money.The US $ will collapse further because Bernanke is still propping up the derivative market and his bankster mates, by creating monopoly money not based on productivity.

The proof of this is the continuing rising unemployment in the US and the collapse of industry.La Rouche is right ,Bernanke is a fool and a wrecker.

Pericles,

I agree that both the men AJay mentioned are both more than an acorn short of a tree on some issues but he is right let him give us real information before we discount it after all some of the world's most innovative thinkers were some what bizarre.

I am curious what relevance was the fact that La Rouche was a Quaker?
Are you suggesting they are in the same class as Scientology, Church of Jedi Knights?

Last time I attended one of their meetings of the Christian denominations sects etc thay struck me as the most innocuous and nearest to reality. Care to comment I'm curious?

Quite a few people have mentioned La Rouche in poor favour .I know little about his past,but was quite pleasantly surprised by his website and ideas.We should not colour our perceptions of reality by other's prejudices.La Rouche was gaoled by George Bush senior and he hates the imperialist poms.He probably has good reason to be aggressive.I would not call the Bush Clan,Cheney,Rumsfeld and many others of that era honesty or integrity.

Not all that is documented on wiki paints a true reality.We should judge people by the reality of their actions.

Neither Pericles or rstuart have debated the merits of La Rouche's plan but rather concentrated on discrediting both myself and La Rouche.

By the way Pericles ,you have not answered "the question" about the WTC and the free fall speed of gravity being achieved.Can you please explain this in a few well chosen sentences in your own words with vague references to your usual nonsense?

But of course, examinator.

>>what relevance was the fact that La Rouche was a Quaker?... Care to comment I'm curious?<<

It was a juxtaposition, not a judgment on Quakerdom.

I observed that "LaRouche is a serial fantasist. A Fascist who once was Marxist. A Quaker who supported Saddam Hussein."

LaRouche is one of those individuals who blows with the wind. He was actually raised in a Quaker family, so presumably was imbued with those gentle ideals. But later in life determines to support a dictator who gassed Kurds. A decidedly un-Quaker-like stance.

And Arjay, it is sometimes important to understand where ideas are born, in order to evaluate their likely merit.

>>We should not colour our perceptions of reality by other's prejudices<<

Your perceptions should not be coloured by my prejudices, of course they should not. But that doesn't let you off the hook from making your own assessment of the effect that Larouche's Fascist views have on the policies he espouses today.

Although the fact that you choose not to consider them is, for me, a valid reason to question the value of your judgment.

>>Neither Pericles or rstuart have debated the merits of La Rouche's plan<<

Which plan is that, Arjay? Point to written ones, I don't have time to wade through interminable YouTubes.

>>By the way Pericles ,you have not answered "the question" about the WTC and the free fall speed of gravity being achieved.Can you please explain this in a few well chosen sentences in your own words<<

Nope. I am completely unqualified to provide an explanation of my own.

I could of course do what you do, which is to cut and paste the work of others. Which you are forced to do, because after all, you aren't an architect either, are you?

I could just as easily go to the no-conspiracy web sites and cut and paste from there. But I choose not to, relying instead on logic and my own common sense.

Caught out yet again pericles.Just like the Alan Grayson Elizabeth Coleman episode,lame answers and no explanation and alluding to other's incredulity.

La Rouche is right,we need soverign nations who own and control their own currencies.I don't think that fixed exchange rates would be a good idea .Perhaps in the interim.Both he and Ron Paul are right about the derivatives being worthless pieces of paper.It needs bankruptcy re-organisation.Many others have echoed these sentiments.

What is happening right now in the West,is that the derivative market and the banking system is sucking the wealth from the real economy.This money then leaves production to maintain the bubble economy and produce more arms.Obama is increasing his defence budget.That is why real industry is closing and unemployment is rising.

La Rouche's 4 powers idea of mutual projects has a lot of merit.It stops the war mongering USA trying to steal what they cannot produce and puts the money into production instead of destructive weapons.

The Green lobby also need to put in their place,since the powers that be,are using their platform to make us feel guilty about development.

I cleaned behind my computer. The fluffy sort of dust seems to be attracted to electrics. After I finished I had no sound from my speakers so cannot hear the podcast. Teach me for cleaning!.

However I am alarmed that commodity prices are driven by traders. No physical delivery need take place. No real physical demand has to be verified. If they stop trading gold right this minute for eg and all owners had to take delivery there simply would not be enough gold to fulfill orders. This has to have an impact on the economy for all the wrong reasons.

Reserve banks work against each other to manipulate currency and gold is quite often used to achieve this. As commodities are priced in USD gold is the easiest way to manipulate as it is not a useful ore. So reserve banks buy and sell physical to manipulate cross rates with the USD. Add this physical buy/sell to the traders fake buy/sell the real demand for gold is lost in translation. Same for other commodities.

Add to this short selling and also t+3 then we have fake markets. I have traded t+3 back when credit was easy. Make money without ever having any. Was quite cool to see how it works. I think the bank figured it out because now they want security lol.

We need a return to basic supply and demand models. Soon.

I, for one, love seeing LaRouche discussed. It's enormously entertaining to drift through a thread thinking, "What? He truly believes that? And people take him quite seriously?"

LaRouche provides those internet moments when you realise that some things aren't worth challenging, but should be enjoyed for their silliness.

Have we got to the part yet about Prince Charles being a sinister global overlord who plots to wipe out whole populations with the swine flu his agents genetically engineered?

I didn't make that up. The LaRouchians believe it as surely as they believe the economic guff.

Really, Sancho?

>>Have we got to the part yet about Prince Charles being a sinister global overlord who plots to wipe out whole populations with the swine flu his agents genetically engineered? I didn't make that up. The LaRouchians believe it as surely as they believe the economic guff.<<

Are you sure it wasn't Mohamed Al Fayed?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article3393265.ece

I'm a bit surprised Arjay hasn't picked up on this obvious conspiracy - it only needs his surgical logic to blow the whole thing wide open.

"'The Duke of Edinburgh runs the country behind the scenes; he is the actual head of the Royal Family. He’s a racist; he grew up with Nazis,' Mr Al Fayed maintained, adding for good measure that one of the Duke’s aunts had married one of Hitler’s generals. 'And beneath the surface he has a German name – Frankenstein. Well, it sounds like Frankenstein.'"

There's growing evidence that Arjay and Mohamed al Fayed are one and the same person... after all, has anyone seen them together in the same room?

There you go then.

Pericles.Why do you persist so if all I say is BS? I'm not an avid follower of La Rouche.I am however an avid follower and supporter of Ron Paul and his aim to end the US Federal Reseve.Your aim is to discredit via association rather than being logical.

You have a self interested political agenda that has nothing to do with the common good.

Ron Paul often has interviews with Alex Jones,but officially he is not of my view that the 911 attacks were an inside job.He won't go there because of vultures like you who feed off the general pubic's ignorance.

There is now positive,irrefutible evidence that the towers and building 7 were brought down by controlled demolition.This is conspiracy fact.see http://www.ae911truth.org/
As far as the other conspiracy theories go,we should wait until the evidence is manifest.

This Wed 11/11/09 at 11.00 am there will be a protest outside the ABC studios {Ultimo Sydney} concerning their refusal to air the damning new evidence that demonstrates beyond any doubt,that explosives brought down both the WTC Towers and building 7.Richard Gage will be there,the founder of Architects and Engineers for 911 Truth along with many other experts who know the forensic science.

I challenge you to be there Pericles and we shall meet in person.

Pericles, you're only demonstrating how thoroughly you've been suckered by the Illuminati.

*I* am the secret head of the royal family, and it was I who married one of Hitler's generals. In fact, I married two generals and an SS commandant in a polygamous Muslim ceremony conducted in the studio where the moon landings were faked.

The rings were made of wreckage from the missile fired at the Pentagon on 9/11

My operatives control every aspect of your life - including your thoughts and laundry. That's why you don't ask where the missing socks go, or why a vastly powerful global network of superhumans doesn't just kill or co-opt Lyndon LaRouche for talking about it constantly.

I don't see a problem with Larouche, or his political action committee. I saw some of them outside a campus and they had the "obamastache" poster. They told me that the senate bills were aimed at an Unconstitutional Independent Medicare Advisory Board. This board will institute "cost effective" measurements for medicare/caid. and social security. All without Congressional Oversight? That is institutional Insurrection to be frank. They also said the first government to institute such a medical advisory board to the gov't was nazi germany by Hitler himself in 1939. And that he actually killed his own people before turning on german jews. I checked that out and it is actually true. Which in itself is scary.

I mean you can question the intentions of such a board if you wish. Looking at how Simon Stevens who now chairs United Health Group has pushed this policy I think I know where they are going with it and it isn't pretty. Either way, these boards are unconstitutional regardless of intention. You cannot give these institutions authority over legislation passed by Congress. Having policy changes without congressional consent is insane. Congress signing it to make that reality is suicide.

Now I learn that one of his political action committee members, the same one that stood up to barney frank in august, is actually running for barney's seat in Congess. I was actually thinking about starting a forum for a focus group for this woman's campaign against barney frank.

The Russia/China deals are brilliant. They are using the dollar right now more-so within the confines of the US Constitution than we the USA are.