Fine sentiments from the latest contributors. May I remind them that socialism via revolution is by definition Communism. Please refer me to the Communist nirvana that is putting bread equally on everyones table.
The experiment with Communism resulted in wealthy ruling elites, abject poverty for most citizens and millions killed by their own governments. Give me Capitalism with its imperfections any day.
Social democrats aspire to a more equitable distribution of wealth but do not choose revolutionas as the means of achieving that goal.
Third world aid that props up despotic governments is also unhelpful to the long term interests of the downtrodden. Start thinking about genuine free trade and the encouragement of democracy around the world.

Horus “Agree with you about the incongruity of CEOs & the like getting paid disproportionate bonuses, even in cases where companies perform poorly, or worse, fail.”

There are 680,000 companies listed with the ATO. Maybe you can list how many of the CEO are paid “disproportionate bonuses”.

“parasitic born rich, many of whom actually are (ironically ) closet lefties”

If they are “closet lefties” how do you know they are?

Tao “To be one of the top 5% of people with “initiative or perseverance to make it” in capitalism means”

that those 5% contribute a significantly greater portion of their income in taxes than anyone else.

Further, through their organizational skill and risk capital they provide the jobs which the other 95% are employed in and from which the most significant wealth transfer takes place (called wages and salaries).

I would further note, it is entirely possible and reasonable for anyone to aspire and take on the role of CEO. It is not a role which is defined by class but by application (application of effort, acquisition of appropriate experience and credentials, acceptance of commercial risk and sometimes by simply application to an advert for the job).

You are deploying “wedge politics” to feed the envy of the less suited for the reward of those with scarce and valued skills.

“I would much rather have a dictatorship of the 95% of people who don’t exploit others.”

I would rather have a democracy. All dictatorships fail. They are held together by repression and corruption. They exist to entrench the lifestyle of the dictatorial elite by rule of the gun and torture.

Do you really think a dictator will be more “benevolent” than a government which relies on being elected by popular vote every few years?

That you could countenance a dictatorship displays your stupidity, unless, of course, you view yourself in the role of “the great protector” or “the great helmsman”, in which case, see a shrink, you are likely suffering a Napoleon complex.

Logical “Start thinking about genuine free trade and the encouragement of democracy around the world.”

Excellen

Tao,
A valuable principle for anyone to learn is:
"Cut your coat according to your cloth".
As politically INcorrect & insensitive as it will be portrayed,
if you can only adequately support one child, don’t have 1+.
Each according to his/her capacity,
rather than each according to his/her wants .

Col Rougue
"How do I no many of the rich are closet lefties".
The contributor list to such groups as the ALP, Democrats & Green parties is a insightful starting point as are the views they are ( occasionally) overheard to express .

As well as considering the taxation levels.
You need also to consider the level of subsidies/benefits some sectors/classes receive-directly or directly.

Why are some people still naive enough to believe in the concept of a benign dictator?
In a democracy you have constraints on the exercise of power. The ACCC can block a monopoly that would hold the community to ransom. An independent judiciary can deliver a reasonable standard of justice. We even offer legal aid to those with inadequate resources to pursue a grievance.You can change leaders if they are not implementing the broad wishes of the community.
Contrast the above with living in a society where you toe the party line or suffer the consequences. Death or life in a gulag (hard to choose which is better)is not the same as being on the bottom of the heap in a Western democracy.
We offer all sorts of social security backups which could be even more generous if you could avoid abuse by those who perceive such entitlements as a right i.e. that participating in the workforce is optional. Bring in compulsory work for the dole. Sickness benefits are a different issue.
Being part of a community means contributing to the best of you abilities. There are obligations as well as rights. I will address myself to so called poverty traps at a later date.
Meanwhile Merry Christmas to all. Please no reminders that it is not so merry for some. I know that and want a more just society but it does not come from looking down the barrel of a dictators gun.

Logical: “May-I-remind-them-that-socialism-via-revolution-is-by-definition-Communism.-Please-refer-me-to-the-Communist-nirvana-that-is-putting-bread-equally-on-everyones-table.”

I have written this elsewhere on this forum, but for those of you who haven’t read it, here it is again:

Marxist theory posits that following the international working class revolution (i.e. socialist revolution), workers will dominate society, suppressing capitalist classes, and reorganise society on the basis of human need, eliminating privilege (i.e. classes). Once privilege has been eliminated, a classless society will exist, the State will no longer be required to enforce inequality and will wither away. This final classless society with no state is what is considered “Communism”.

So Logical, you are incorrect that “socialism via revolution is by definition Communism”. There has never been a “Communist State” because by definition, the term is a nonsense, and there has never been “Communism” in any country.

Another tenet of Marxist theory is that the socialist revolution must be international. Socialism, and Communism, require that all resources, and human labour, be directed to the benefit and improvement of humanity. Socialism cannot be built in one country, and therefore communism will not exist in one country. This is a fundamental point. The leaders of the Russian Revolution knew that the success of the Revolution was dependent on it spreading to surrounding countries, particularly Germany (which didn’t happen because the 1919 uprising was put down after its leaders chickened out). Stalin however, came up with his theory of “Socialism in one Country” in direct contradiction to Marxist theory. Stalin and Stalinism was counter-revolutionary. Anyone who suggests that any one country can build socialism, or be socialist or communist, is actually taking up Stalin’s argument.

Of course on reading this, your initial reaction will be to tell me I am wrong. This is natural, we have been told all of our lives that various “States” are “Communist”. However, before dismissing my argument, you should examine where this information originates from, how it is propagated throughout our society, and why. You should also study Marx, Engels, Lenin & Trotsky – with an open mind.

cont...

“The-experiment-with-Communism-resulted-in-wealthy-ruling-elites,-abject-poverty-for-most-citizens-and-millions-killed-by-their-own-governments.-Give-me-Capitalism-with-its-imperfections-any-day.”

What is different under Capitalism?

We have wealthy ruling elites, they are just hidden behind a “democratic” façade. Most of the world’s citizens live in abject poverty. Even in rich countries there is abject poverty. According to a UNICEF report last year, in the US, 21.9% of children live in poverty. According to Forbes, the combined wealth of the richest 400 individuals is $1.25 trillion.

How many millions of people have been killed in capitalist wars – WW1, WW2, and now Iraq, among others? In the two world wars it is estimated that between 60 and 100 million people were killed.

How many millions of people die every day under capitalism for want of food, fresh water, or medicine? According to a UN Human Development Report, every-year,-10.7 million children die before their fifth birthday. Every-hour more than 1,200 children die. And before you suggest poorer countries should not be counted when measuring capitalism’s success, remember that capitalism is a global-economic-system, the poorer countries are engaged in it and often are the worst-affected because they are exploited by the rich of wealthier countries.

“Social-democrats-aspire-to-a-more-equitable-distribution-of-wealth-but-do-not-choose-revolutionas-as-the-means-of-achieving-that-goal”

The objective function of social democrats in the capitalist system is to delude the working class into thinking that capitalism can be made fairer, or be “reformed”. They pretend to offer an alternative to revolution but all they really do is lead the discontented working class back into the capitalist “democratic” system.

“Start-thinking-about-genuine-free-trade-and-the-encouragement-of-democracy-around-the-world”.

Good Idea.

Which sort of democracy would you like? US Democracy?. The American people just came out to vote against the war in Iraq, yet both parties are planning on increasing troop numbers and intensifying the conflict. The US government commits torture, denies habeas corpus, spies on its people, lies to its people and wages aggressive illegal wars.

Free trade? The aim of the Iraq war was to secure US control of the oil in the region against the competition of its economic rivals, China, Japan, Russia, Europe etc. The US can no longer dominate economically or “freely”, they must do it militarily. Free trade out of the barrel of a gun.