Col I missed the point of "logical or 1984". Orwell's Animal Farm and 1984, as well as some history, should be compulsory reading for Wayne if he wants to understand where revolutions may end up.
As you point out my use of the word "evolution" applied to the development of systems of government. It was not being used in a biological sense. Unfortunately my promotion of evolution is undermined by Wayne being one of evolutions disappointments.

Logical

Yes, not my finest day for grammar (reading too many MichaelK posts).

I should have written

logical: "or 1984".

Referring to it as another Orwellian source for consideration of the "darker side" of "social organisation".

Anyway, as we approach the day may

I wish you and other posters here a Merry Christmas

I consider Christmas to be time for family.

So Peace and tranquility to all and your families.

YEBIGA

“They-always-require-certain-pre-conditions:-widespread-poverty-and-corruption,-desperation,-revolutionary-leaders,-and-a-score-of-others.-We-are-a-long-way-off-having-the-necessary-pre-requisites.-What-would-be-required-is-the-total-collapse-of-the-global-corporate-capitalist-system---not-entirely-out-of-the-question.-Something-like-global-warming-could-trigger-a-series-of-catastrophes,-which-conceivably-could-prepare-the-ground-for-revolution---but-it-is-some-way-off.”

It might be closer than you think, and hopefully it is.

The distribution of wealth in the US is extremely polarised and elsewhere it is becoming more and more so. The CEO of Goldman Sachs is receiving a $53 million bonus this Xmas, while the average household income in the US is about $40K. – he could support more than 1000 families per year on his bonus.

US Capitalism is in major crisis. They can no longer dominate economically so they are forced to do so militarily. Hence the illegal invasion of Iraq.

But the US ruling class is heading for a confrontation with the population. Masses of people came out to vote against the war 6 weeks ago, but the Administration and the Democrats are now talking about increasing troop numbers and intensifying the conflict, rather than pulling out. The Government is ignoring the will of the people. The democratic system, having been trashed in the 2000 stolen election, is in serious decay. The ruling classes are acting with impunity, a little reminiscent of “let them eat cake”. Bush is even now talking about increasing the size of the military. Given that they can’t meet their recruitment targets now, how will they recruit even more people? The only way is conscription – the idea has even been floated by a Democrat.

But yes, we need revolutionary leaders, and to build a mass party of the international working class. The Socialist Equality Party in the US ran in some states in the recent elections and got strong support considering the odds against them – people are consciously voting for socialism which is pretty significant. People are knocking on their doors to join. There is an Australian Section.

WayneSmith you need to distinguish between a military coup and a revolution. A military coup will solve nothing. Nor will rounding up the current crop of politicians. Don't worry about them. After the revolution, if they haven't gone stark raving mad, we will give them a job and a council flat.

Tao,
Agree with you about the incongruity of CEOs & the like getting paid disproportionate bonuses, even in cases where companies perform poorly, or worse, fail.

Agree with you about the often, but not always, parasitic born rich, many of whom actually are (ironically ) closet lefties.

But the prospect of a directorship of those who are envious of the rich, but lack the initiative or perseverance to make it themselves, is equally unpalatable

Horus,

Why is it that someone who can barely feed their family on a week’s wages but thinks that they should be able to is called “envious” by people like you? These people, just like you, want a comfortable life, and to give their family a future. Where is the envy in that?

Why is it that when someone believes that the current state of affairs where the majority of the world live in abject poverty despite us having the technology to feed, clothe, house, water and educate them all, while a small percentage accumulate massive wealth at their expense, and live in luxury, is unjust and inequitable, do people like you call them “envious”?

Your propensity to jump to the conclusion about other people’s “envy” says more about you than it does about them.

And Horus,

To be one of the top 5% of people with “initiative or perseverance to make it” in capitalism means that a person would have to exploit at least 95 other people’s labour. It means that that person would be required to use force to subjugate the 95% and enforce their “right” to profit (not necessarily directly but through the use of the State).

I would much rather have a dictatorship of the 95% of people who don’t exploit others.