suss/quote

lying...<<..provided 29 evidences for macroevolution..(evolution above the species level).in the link >>

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc

clever stuff/..quoting my own link..back at me
trouble is..i demolished it

allready
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=3124#74700

and repeatedly
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=2305
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=2305#52763
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=2305#52953
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=2305#52755
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=2305#52535
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=2305#52648

but lets play with your new words..<<evolution above the species level>>..

from
http://www.pnas.org/content/72/2/646.abstract

quote..<<Gradual evolutionary/change..by natural selection operates..
so slowly within established species...LOL>>>SPECIES..NOT GENUS YOU NUT

<<..that it cannot account..for the major features of evolution.>>>get it

<<Evolutionary change tends to be concentrated/within speciation events..>>.not genus/events

<<The direction of tran-speci-fic/evolution..is determined #
..by the process of species selection,>>>lol...within the genus

<<<..which is analogous to natural/selection..but acts upon species>>>lol

<<within higher taxa/..rather than upon individuals..within populations.

>>Species selection..operates on variation/provided
by the largely random process of speciation...LOL..and favors..species..that speciate>>

little wonder..you need steal my links/then pretend they are valid...
you got them when i rebutted then ya tard..

...to make ya prooof...dont try presenting rebutted stuff...that i allready rebutted

as i repeatedly said

pick one ..or me to tear appart for you...
all the transitionals...are fraud
many rebutted..at the abouve links

so pick one...and stop sending me back...to my own links

You didn't demolish it OUG, I told you how all you explained is what I was saying, you were giving examples as to why speciation occurs. Speciation is macro-evolution.

Your responses just make assertions stating they are not credible, and don't respond to the evidences. Indeed, your links talk about abiogenesis, which is NOT part of the Theory of Evolution.

With regards your genus argument. I have responded over an over to this yet you refuse to accept that genus is a naming convention for _related_ species. I have also stated repeatedly that evolution occurs at the species level, as all things are a species. Genus is just the naming convention of their heredity. I prefer 'cladistics' as a description. How do you OUG define genus? is it just the look of the life? Or do you include the similarity of DNA etc? species are placed in genus based on the evolutionary tree. That's why species can be moved around for best associative fit.

Your evidence for 'creation' given in your link has been demolished many many a time. This fellow Briney is a young earth creationist and those 'evidences' you put forward are approached all over the web google for it.

Doug presents a thorough rebuttal of the arguments from Briney's website :
http://fayfreethinkers.com/quacks/briney/dougthermoroast.shtml

Dave continues the critique as Briney refuses to respond to Doug :
http://fayfreethinkers.com/quacks/briney/davethermoroast.shtml

AronRA has a great series that totally demolishes all this evidence you put forward, and more!

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=126AFB53A6F002CC

Your 'evidence' is just making assumptions based on no observable evidence as science is at the moment, and making predictions of the past based on that, ignoring the fact evolution is NOT abiogenesis. And here you are saying that evolution, which uses solid evidence of what is happening now, of fossils, DNA, morphology, phylogenetic systematics etc etc as evidence for what has happened in the past, is not good enough?

what a hypocrite, anyway, see above links for all your 'evidence' totally debunked.

suss[quote]/..Speciation..is macro-evolution.[/quote]

full reply..see
http://forum.worldfreemansociety.org/viewtopic.php?f=120&t=3225&p=19960#p19960

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macroevolution

<<Since the inception of the two terms,.,their meanings have been revised several times....lol>>

ok/whats the latest...revision/of the meaning...

<<Macroevolution is...a scale of analysis..of evolution./.in separated gene pools.>>genus

<<[1]Macroevolutionary/studies..focus on change..that occurs at/or above..the level of..species,>>lol


<< microevolution,described as changes/in allele/frequencies)..within a species...>>>tangling up/ya terms...how suss..is that?

genus contains the species...
but you ignore that...so i refer you/to a page..FROM YA OWN LINK...
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/section5.html

<<Cladistic/classification,..and thus,..phylogenetic/reconstruction,
is largely based on ..the various distinguishing/morphological characteristics...of species.>>>

get it/individual/species..WITHIN..THE..GENUS..lol

<<Macroevolution.requires that organisms'/morphologies..have changed throughout evolutionary-history>>..ie at the genus/population level...lol..ABOVE..the individual species THAT micro ECVOLVED..'it'..

<<<thus,..we/observe morphological change/variation..in modern populations.>>>populations #/within a given genus...within/a given FAMILY...via species..individuals..

go/read species/genus/families...ie the orders..etc

<<The most useful/for/who/definition of species...(which does not assume evolution)...>>lol<<If...lol..branching of existing species..into new species..>>>...

species/mutate..as within genus/bounds..get it
no sex/no gene-exchange

<<..occurred/gradually..in the past,..we should see..all possible degrees of speciation...>>..wake up/numb nut

<<or genetic isolation/today>>>...within its genus/families etc..

but the good news..is/we have a faulsification...
that invalidates/the theory..if proved

<<<Potential Falsification:..there were no instances/of hybrids..,>>

so how goes/your efferts to fertalise/ya sheep?...
or your fish-mating endeavours/edited

<<that genus is a naming/convention for _related_ species.[/quote]

suss confession/[quote]..evolution/occurs at the species level..[/quote]lol

WITHIN/genus...its a lable...that lables/collectivly...individuals/of the species...that its genus/..consists of

get it/..ya are claiming...genus can breed...when its just a collective GENERIC/..lable..then..re/state/.

.its at species/as your own words reveal

[quote]..as all things are a species.>>>
..Genus..<<is/naming convention/..of their heredity.[/quote]

egsactly/a way of labling/naming genericlly..their heredity.

heredity..cant breed..mate

[quote]..Or do you/include the similarity of DNA..etc?[/quote]
..we share 50/%..the dna of a bannana..

but you poking it where the sun dont shine...WILL/never..create the hybred...because its..a different genus...goinup yaanus..GET IT?

[quote]species are placed in genus[/quote]
yes they are..and divergent/genus dont breed

its still fraud/like your claim of my...lol..link
then rebutting you own/link

[quote]Your evidence for..'creation'..in your link/has been demolished>>>[/quote]

great..i note..
not/by you/here/now

[quote]Doug presents a thorough rebuttal of the arguments from Briney's website:
http://fayfreethinkers.com/quacks/briney/dougthermoroast.shtml[/quote]

first off sunshine i never posted any link.
.your deluding rebuting a link i never posted
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=9564#154420

so you sought to create a conflict based on a lie

never the/less..ok lets egsamine/your link...his..lol..evidence

beginning withhis..point-scoring..[quote]DOUG
http://forum.worldfreemansociety.org/viewtopic.php?f=120&t=3225&p=19960#p19960

first off, yes you did post links to past conversation. you wrote :

"FROM
http://www.uark.edu/~cdm/creation/life.htm"

as your evidence, to which I responded too with a full debunk.

"yes they are..and divergent/genus dont breed"

OUG this is just total ignorance over what evolution states, which is not this. This is what you are trying to state evolution is about, and it's not.

Evolution is not saying divergent speciation breed, totally the opposite. It's speciation and divergence of this kind that has led to us naming those divergences in a taxonomic tree, and due to it not being the best way, moving to cladistics. Folk like yourself take labels such as 'genus' outside the fact they are a classification of species ONLY, and give them some border attribute. The fact that species can be moved a bout just shows how close many of these points of divergence are. Indeed, what can be considered as in one genus at one time, later due to better understanding, can be found to be a different genus altogether. Scientists understand this from the EVIDENCE regarding how closely related things are, via DNA, morpohology etc etc.

A new genus cannot come about anymore than you could have kids that are not related to your grandparents. IT IS JUST A NAME GIVEN TO GROUPS OF SPECIES (how many times do I have to say that?)

Genus is like saying everyone of your families name, from your grandparents grandparents grandparents down. it could be ANY point, the naming is arbitrary and only relates to the evolutionary 'branch'. None of your children or childrens children can ever change that. It's not an evolutionairy 'problem', it's due to the fact it's just a naming convention for groups of species hereditary lineage .. derr.

"full reply..see
http://forum.worldfreemansociety.org/viewtopic.php?f=120&t=3225&p=19960#p19960 "

OUG you have been repeatedly told people cannot access this as it asks for a username password.

Give your 'evidence' for the fact your god created everything in a place that people can actually read it.

Of course I raised to gather courage from those
Lofty tales so tried and true and
If you're able I'd suggest it 'cause this
Modern thought can get the best of you.

This rather simple epitaph can save your hide your falling mind
Fate isn't what we're up against there's no design no flaws to find
There's no design no flaws to find.

But I learned fast how to keep my head up 'cause I
Know I got this side of me that
Wants to grab the yoke from the pilot and just
Fly the whole mess into the sea.