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The Forum > General Discussion > The demise of Plain English

The demise of Plain English

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Pelican,
don't you mean
“Spin” = 'manipulation of words to emphasise the speakers perspective, advantage?', ''buzz words” = words that in the current (popular) idiom or phraseology'. imagine using the the descriptions of each and every buzz word when you wrote.
Most are legitimate if some what nuanced.
Perhaps you mean 'simple' English?
How simple ? Tabloids (sensational instant answers if superficial analysis that plays to the mass market TV 7, 9 10 news) wrote to a year 8 level standard
The broadsheet. ( Age , Aust)now about year 11/12 broadsheets .
Some reflect the tendency towards specialised audience (i.e. 'fin review', 'insiders', 'Sunday business', 'Lateline business' et al Ch 2/SBS). These are generalised not exclusive.


News paper stories were more factual(?) some were and some weren't. We have journalists rather than reporters..... Journalists add 'interpretation' (infotainment), reporters just reported Why? The media would argue they are fulfilling a want (see my topic “who's the villain”, and “is this racism”) or are they simply creating a market from potential ( my response to the article 'is the media biased').

Now we come to politicians (yuck). If one really examines their speeches then and now nothing much has changed what has changed are the starkness of the differences between the wit and the combativeness . One could blame the media's obsession with ever more sensation and their competition to grab the public's attention( topic 'desexualising the law') and desensitising /conditioning the public.

I would humbly suggest that the apparent predominance of spin is really a manifestation of the modern propensity towards sensation, short simple answers as opposed to insightful analysis.

The emphasis is on commercial (financial success or at least wants rather than needs).
Easier to play to base instincts than the frontal lobes. The world is becoming more sensual less contemplative? Some scientist think so. See http://www.abc.net.au/tv/fora/stories/2009/10/09/2709586.htm implication .

IMHO one can't isolate the topic of spin without considering the reasons for it. Then again I am that odd beast, examinator ant.
Posted by examinator, Monday, 12 October 2009 1:44:11 PM
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RobP
Urban myths are different to cultural myths
See program 'Myth Busters'

Perceptions aren't necessarily facts. There is no substitute for thinking/questioning. Without that it's entertainment....fantasy.
Posted by examinator, Monday, 12 October 2009 1:48:53 PM
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"I would humbly suggest that the apparent predominance of spin is really a manifestation of the modern propensity towards sensation, short simple answers as opposed to insightful analysis. "

Possibly but sometimes the insightful analysis can be a wordy minefield as well. I have read government job Ads in the paper and by the end of the description still none the wiser for what the role involves. I will see if I can find an example.

Trouble is using your analogy, is to see everyone's comments as spin even yours on the passport issue or any other number of threads you have posted. My spin, your spin, anybody's spin. I suggest not everything is spin. I guess people have to make up their own minds based on the subject matter.

I have been associated with government one way or another for over 20 years and I can say from my experience it has got worse.

Pynchme's 'workshop' reminded me of a recent one on Emotional Intelligence. Basically it was just another way of discussing how to deal with difficult people, how to manage etc. We are good at coming up with new phrases or words for very simple meanings.

Even the humble sign is now 'signage'.

Someone mentioned 'value-adding'. I have seen very little real value added in these scenarious at work. It tends to mean we have to add value to what we do to justify existence rather than valuing the real work that is actually already being done and needs to be done. It usually means exagerating the importance of a task as necessary when really it has no or little value.
Posted by pelican, Monday, 12 October 2009 3:17:04 PM
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Pelican,
We are an emotional species life therefore simply isn't a series of binary actions/reactions.
Blunt language has it's own problems in that it doesn't express, acknowledge, respect others as people.

Complex thoughts need complex language but people tend to abbreviate and find/invent words to cover concepts
I agree 'bendable learning' is a mystery to me.
I agree that there are document written that defy common understanding or are simply badly written (yes I've done my share of both) don't throw the baby out with the water.

One example I remember was trying to configure a mini main frame computer for a customer. He simply could get his head around the details needed by the factory to build it. To his mind he wanted to run this product with this many screens and that was it. In the end WE had to hire an independent tech to explain it to him. Any thing we said was BS buzz words etc.
Likewise when trying to change attitudes in workshops it can appear a bit PC but I can tell you if the staff identify client by being in their view 'difficult' it does affect the way they relate to them.
E.g asking a customer to 'sign a Contract' are hard words and inclined to spook the customer because they focus the client's attention on the risk. By merely saying can you 'authorise this agreement agreement' this places the emphasis on the client's authority and is up to 20-30% more likely to sign. Weasel words? perhaps but it DOES CHANGE ATTITUDES.

As a parent maybe later is better than a flat NO! (you whinging little erk...[optional])

I admit I tend to mentally harden language in speeches, in sales pitches (be that a retailer, the girl who's washing her hair(I recon I did wonders for girl's hair hygiene as a young lad) , poli or the *&%$#%*& boss) but that's life.

If I do have problems on OLO it is the superficial way some approach interesting/important topics. Then there are the instant answer brigade.
Posted by examinator, Monday, 12 October 2009 6:28:16 PM
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Examinator,

>>Perceptions aren't necessarily facts. There is no substitute for thinking/questioning. Without that it's entertainment....fantasy.<<

I have worked in the PS since 1992. I submit that what I am saying is based on what I've seen happen over that time. I've seen the fads come and go, I've seen way-above-average staff being labelled as yesterday's men and gotten rid of in spill-and-fill processes. I've spoken to experienced people who've been in the organisation for 30 years saying that, in hindsight, they could have predicted very accurately which staff were going to get the chop based on their relationship with management. The common theme was that if you threatened management, even inadvertently, you got the chop - the worst form of internal politics IMO. So what fills the space? People that learn not to rock the boat and who consequently toe the line. This must lower standards as they start to second-guess or kowtow to management and don't think through issues and problems for themselves.

This is not made up or just perception, but real.
Posted by RobP, Monday, 12 October 2009 7:53:57 PM
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Examinator
Blunt language can be rude and impolite. However, there is a difference between straightforward talk and blunt language. It is possible with the large array of words at our disposal to be direct and honest and at the same time keep our manners. On occasion this may not always be possible and sometimes a good honest airing can do wonders.

Methinks you are reading too much into this.

I am happy for you to challenge my view about the demise of plain English - but I happen to disagree. Even in the area of IT it is possible to speak in layman's language.

The issue of language is discussed much between public servants and non-public servants alike and someone obviously thought there was enough in it to write a book about it.

The biggest issue is the modern corporate speak trend for language to disguise what is really going on. The tendency to create the image of doing something has become more important than the act of doing. It comes down to being seen to be accountable. This is dishonest and the 'demise of plain English' is the fallout of maintaining that illusion.

RobP is right about the fate of dissenting public servants and most just keep their mouths shut unless they have nothing to lose.
Posted by pelican, Tuesday, 13 October 2009 7:35:42 AM
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